# Army to Seek Death Penalty for Accused US Soldiers
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 2, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232 "2006-09-02T20:34:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/1 "2006-09-02T20:34:13Z")
[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap\_on\_re\_us/iraq\_soldiers\_charged](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_us/iraq_soldiers_charged)
> [@](#):
>
> An Army investigator has recommended that four soldiers accused of murder in a raid in Iraq should face the death penalty, according to a report obtained Saturday by The Associated Press.
>
> Lt. Col. James P. Daniel Jr. concluded that the slayings were premeditated and warranted the death sentence based on evidence he heard at an August hearing.
Disclaimer and proviso: for the purposes of this discussion, I am assuming that the defendants are, in fact, guilty. I would dearly love to believe that they are not, and that said truth will out. I don’t, but I’d like to. Furthermore, I oppose the imposition of the death penalty, period, and it is not my intention to advance that subject for debate.
Would you, for whatever reasons, support the imposition of the death penalty, and why? Further, would you support the intervention of Presidential clemency. And why.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/2 "2006-09-02T20:40:23Z")
It’s good that they’re seeking the maximum penalty possible for this crime. They aren’t trying to sweep it under the rug or minimize what’s alleged to have occured. It’s bad that the maximum penalty possible happens to be the death penalty. I’m very much against the death penalty, and would like to see it abolished. Despite that, I would be opposed to granting these soldiers clemency, unless there are some very powerful reasons why they should be treated any better than any other murderer on death row. “Being a soldier,” needless to say, is not powerful enough.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/3 "2006-09-02T22:39:58Z")
I’m anti-death penalty, but as long as that is the law, and as long as these crimes satisfy the criteria for the death penalty, then so be it. If what has been reported in the paper is true, this was premeditated murder (and rape). Seems like death penalty material to me, at least for the guys who actually did the deed.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/4 "2006-09-02T22:49:21Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> I’m anti-death penalty, but as long as that is the law, and as long as these crimes satisfy the criteria for the death penalty, then so be it. If what has been reported in the paper is true, this was premeditated murder (and rape). Seems like death penalty material to me, at least for the guys who actually did the deed.
This is a different case than the [one](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldiers.charged/index.html) you’re thinking of. Though I would expect those soldiers to also face the death penalty.
Which I’m against. If found guilty, they should spend their lives in prison. Clemency would be beyond a joke.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/5 "2006-09-02T22:57:56Z")
> [@Frank](#):
>
> This is a different case than the [one](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldiers.charged/index.html) you’re thinking of. Though I would expect those soldiers to also face the death penalty.
>
> Which I’m against. If found guilty, they should spend their lives in prison. Clemency would be beyond a joke.
Clemency isn’t a pardon, just a reduction of the penalty. It could include commuting a death sentence into life without parole which is what I would support (just because I’m opposed to the death penalty) and which sounds like something you might support as well.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/6 "2006-09-02T23:00:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Clemency isn’t a pardon, just a reduction of the penalty. It could include commuting a death sentence into life without parole which is what I would support (just because I’m opposed to the death penalty) and which sounds like something you might support as well.
Good point. Yes, you’re right. I would support that.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/7 "2006-09-02T23:05:36Z")
I would go for the “Calley treatment”. Issue a stern sentence for public consumption (esp. Iraqi consumption) and then just let the matter wander off somewhere until forgotten. Which is to say, sentence them but begin an exhaustively thorough appeals process.
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### Author:  [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/8 "2006-09-02T23:06:01Z")
I sense a trend…
I’m as anti-DP as they come, but if it’s on the books and the crime fits, how can the Army _not_ seek it ? The political consequences of leniency would not be positive, either, particularly in Iraq. The accused are pretty much screwed - I hope they got the right ones, at least.
[cynical]How do you say “pour encourager les autres” in Arabic ?[/cynical]
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### Author:  [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/9 "2006-09-02T23:09:43Z")
I wonder how this will affect the morale of the rest of the troops. Many are likely, whether right or wrong, to believe their brothers-in-arms’ account that they were attacked while following orders. Those who believe this may begin wondering which future order will eventually earn them a death sentence of their own.
But even with that, I support the decision to pursue the death penalty against these soldiers. If they are proven guilty, then they should be sentenced to the maximum punishment, which is death. After the formal sentencing, however, I would also support a sentence reduction to life without parole.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/10 "2006-09-02T23:13:28Z")
Can bet you one damn thing for sure: GeeDubya, despite years as an execution enthusiast, would rather nail his nutsack to a tree and set the tree on fire than sign a warrant.
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### Author:  [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/11 "2006-09-02T23:14:57Z")
Then again… how old are these guys? If they’re not old enough to legally buy a beer, yet old enough to legally shoot to kill, then I would even support the possibility of parole… eventually.
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### Author:  [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/12 "2006-09-02T23:37:00Z")
I just don’t understand this.
What are we doing in Afghanistan ? Hunting down and killing al Qaida soldiers.
What did these soldiers do? Killed al Qaida soldiers.
So could someone explain why some soldiers get a medal and others the death penalty for the same military service ?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/13 "2006-09-02T23:42:24Z")
> [@Frank](#):
>
> This is a different case than the [one](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldiers.charged/index.html) you’re thinking of. Though I would expect those soldiers to also face the death penalty.
You’re right. Scratch the part about rape, and I stand by the earlier post. This case is still premeditated murder (assuming the charges hold).
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/14 "2006-09-02T23:58:13Z")
But it raises another point, nonetheless. There is that other case, which involves not only murder, but rape as well. We need to be careful of the sensibility of our Iraqi “hosts”, but most especially if it is our intention to stay. If we’re leaving, we won’t so much care what they think. (I am surprised our various enemies there have not make more use of this, especially the rape aspect, which I understand is extra special no good in Islamic cultures.)
At any rate, every conceivable mechanism that could slow the progress of this case will be employed. No one, but no one, is in a hurry to have this matter resolved.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/15 "2006-09-02T23:58:08Z")
If its not a death penalty debate, I’m unsure just what the debate is. I’m anti-DP also (DP being Death Penalty, not the other meaning 😉 ), but its a military court and that punishment IS on the books…and I don’t really have a lot of say in the matter. If found guilty they will face whatever punishment is deemed consistant with the crimes I assume…just like a civilian who does the same thing.
So, to answer the OP, yes, I would ‘support’ the DP if that is deemed an appropriate level of punishment fitting the crime and after due process. I’m unsure about Presidential clemency one way or the other to be honest. Was this tossed in because its likely? Why exactly would it be…how would it help in carrying out justice for the victims? OTOH I don’t really believe in the DP much, so I guess if ‘Presidential clemency’ consisted of waving aside a firing squad and instead put the guilty party in jail for the rest of his life, I’d be for that. I’d need to know more before deciding if I’m for or against that aspect though…
-XT
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/16 "2006-09-03T00:06:21Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> I’m anti-death penalty, but as long as that is the law, and as long as these crimes satisfy the criteria for the death penalty, then so be it. If what has been reported in the paper is true, this was premeditated murder (and rape). Seems like death penalty material to me, at least for the guys who actually did the deed.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
If they held a referendum on capital punishment I would vote against it every single time. But as long as it is the law, the prosecution is obliged to seek it for the most heinous crimes, the courts are obliged to impose it, and it would be wrong for the executive to intervene.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/17 "2006-09-03T00:44:51Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#):
>
> What did these soldiers do? Killed al Qaida soldiers.
I have seen no evidence that the Iraqi victims were Al Qaeda. Have you?
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/18 "2006-09-03T01:11:55Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#):
>
> What did these soldiers do? Killed al Qaida soldiers.
Um…no they didn’t. Have you bothered to read the story?
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/19 "2006-09-03T01:20:16Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#):
>
> I have seen no evidence that the Iraqi victims were Al Qaeda. Have you?
Evidence, who in hell needs evidence? Don’t you realize that everything has changed? That’s thinking like that pre 9/11 political party. If they are not with us they are against us, right? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/20 "2006-09-03T01:24:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> …GeeDubya, despite years as an execution enthusiast…
'Scuse moi?
He’s an execution _enthusiast_, is he?
One wonders how it is that you arrive at this conclusion? Is it only necessary to support the DP as an effective deterrent/punishment, and to apply it as the law proscribes if you happen to be the governor of a state in which the law calls for it, in order to be labelled an execution ‘enthusiast’?
Just wondering, you know, given that many of the posters to this very thread (though careful, of course, to voice their _own_ opposition to the DP) nonetheless indicate that it’s only correct and proper that these soldiers receive the DP if found guilty, because it’s the law.
It appears to me that unless it’s the mere belief in the propriety of the DP, rather than the application of it, that is the determining factor in one’s being labelled an ‘enthusiast’, GWB is guilty of nothing more than what many of this board’s own anti-DPers appear to favor, which is the application of the DP in accordance with laws that are on the books. And, if it’s your contention that anybody who simply supports the DP as an effective deterrent/punishment is an ‘enthusiast’, then the word simply loses its meaning as one can certainly support something without being entusiastic about it.
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