# Army to Seek Death Penalty for Accused US Soldiers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232 "2006-09-02T20:34:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Merhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Merhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/21 "2006-09-03T01:24:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman > What did these soldiers do? Killed al Qaida soldiers. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Um…no they didn’t. Have you bothered to read the story? [/QUOTE] I know I’m going to regret this, but: From the story linked in the OP: **Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Spc. Juston R. Graber have claimed they were ordered to “kill all military age males” during the raid on the island. According to statements from some of the soldiers, they were told the target was an al-Qaida training camp.** There certainly seems to be some thought on the part of these soldiers that they were in fact killing the “enemy”. I don’t get why all of a sudden guys who might have done exactly what was asked of them are now looking at the death penalty. But, that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/22 "2006-09-03T01:28:40Z")
Evidently, they didn’t do what was asked of them. If they had, one of them would not have had to STAB THE OTHER, a la _Scream_, in order to claim that they were attacked. Like the OP, I’m assuming, for the sake of argument, that the stabbing incident occured. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/23 "2006-09-03T01:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Merhouse] From the story linked in the OP: **Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Spc. Juston R. Graber have claimed they were ordered to “kill all military age males” during the raid on the island. According to statements from some of the soldiers, they were told the target was an al-Qaida training camp.** There certainly seems to be some thought on the part of these soldiers that they were in fact killing the “enemy”. I don’t get why all of a sudden guys who might have done exactly what was asked of them are now looking at the death penalty. [/QUOTE] Well, first off, soldiers are not required to obey an illegal order. An order which encompasses the killing of prisoners would, I think, be illegal. Second, that’s what the trial’s for. Obviously, the prosecutor is not buying that story; perhaps a jury will. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/24 "2006-09-03T01:58:03Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] 'Scuse moi?.. …about it. [/QUOTE] I support execution for piracy. Hijackers, however, should simply be batted aside. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/25 "2006-09-03T01:59:59Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] This is a different case than the [one](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldiers.charged/index.html) you’re thinking of. Though I would expect those soldiers to also face the death penalty. Which I’m against. If found guilty, they should spend their lives in prison. Clemency would be beyond a joke. [/QUOTE] Dang, it’s frighteningly easy to confuse one such incident with another. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/26 "2006-09-03T02:42:22Z")
Kill them. I only regret the Army (the lead agency for executions) has moved from firing squad to lethal injection. Firing squads are drawn from the unit of the criminals. It tends to teach a very good lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/27 "2006-09-03T02:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] He’s an execution _enthusiast_, is he? [/QUOTE] Someone who mocks the condemned, executes more than other governers and and claims that no one innocent has ever been executed in Texas ? Sounds pretty enthusiastic to me. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/28 "2006-09-03T03:29:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Clemency isn’t a pardon, just a reduction of the penalty. It could include commuting a death sentence into life without parole which is what I would support (just because I’m opposed to the death penalty) and which sounds like something you might support as well. [/QUOTE] I’d support clemency if it were part of a universal commutation of all death row prisoners. But otherwise I see no extenuating circumstances that that warrant special mercy and I think it would set a bad example if we let soldiers off the hook just because they’re soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/29 "2006-09-03T03:34:31Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Well, first off, soldiers are not required to obey an illegal order. An order which encompasses the killing of prisoners would, I think, be illegal. Second, that’s what the trial’s for. Obviously, the prosecutor is not buying that story; perhaps a jury will. [/QUOTE] And even if such an order were given I don’t think rape is included in an order to “kill all … males.” And, order or no order, while in the process of committing rape they were on duty and on a military mission. No army can allow such behavior and maintain any sort of discipline. In the army I was in a conviction for rape, all by itself, could bring execution. I also see from the story that a rape conviction in 1960 could also bring the death penalty. Rape and plundering are taken seriously because it is a hazard to military operations. When troops are allowed to mistreat enemy civilians and to start looting after success they tend to continue that behavior. Mob psychology can affect armies just like anyone else. If an army gets a reputation for celebrating a victory in that manner it’s the easiest thing in the world to hand them a victory and then attack them with possible, or even probable, serious consequences while they are running wild. The claims to be “only following orders” have apparently been investigated and considers as insuficiently supported to prevent trial. The army is quite properly going to try to punish severely gross misbehavior than can threaten the mission. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/30 "2006-09-03T03:38:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Um…no they didn’t. Have you bothered to read the story? [/QUOTE] Yes they did or at least claim they did. Have you bothered to read the story? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/31 "2006-09-03T03:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Kill them. I only regret the Army (the lead agency for executions) has moved from firing squad to lethal injection. [/QUOTE] I guess all those years in Saudi Arabia have dulled **Paul’s** American values such as the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/32 "2006-09-03T03:48:38Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] I have seen no evidence that the Iraqi victims were Al Qaeda. Have you? [/QUOTE] Not really. I have seen no evidence that the Iraqi “victims” were _not_ al Qaeda. Have you? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/33 "2006-09-03T04:00:41Z")
**Flying Dutchman** s response may yet prove to be instructive. Suppose that attitude is widely shared by some people, say a large portion of GeeDubs base, that mere Iraqis aren’t worthy of the same level of justice as we Americans. Oh, they might dress it up fancy, like suggesting that the Iraqis gratitude for our sacrifices should oblige them to accept a few unfortunate incidents such as these. War ain’t pretty, as they delight to remind us wussifists and liberal wimps. Sound crazy? Remember the POW/MIA movement, that spread like wildfire across the US after the Viet Nam War? That was crazy, that was _damn_ crazy! And remember: Rusty Calley did _no_ hard time. There is an element of American society that is blindly pro-military, they ain’t gonna like this one little bit, and they _damned_ sure won’t stand still for any hangings! This much you can be sure of: this will be one long, drawn out process. And The Leader will remain entirely consistent with his refusal ever, _ever_ to discuss it until every last “I” is crossed and every “T” dotted. Two bits says this whole pile of crap gets bucked to the next President. Compassionate conservatism means, first and foremost having compassion for conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/34 "2006-09-03T04:08:11Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] Not really. I have seen no evidence that the Iraqi “victims” were _not_ al Qaeda. Have you? [/QUOTE] I guess all those years in the U.S. have dulled **FD** ’s American values such as the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/35 "2006-09-03T04:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] I guess all those years in Saudi Arabia have dulled **Paul’s** American values such as the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. [/QUOTE] > [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > I have seen no evidence that the Iraqi “victims” were not al Qaeda. Have you? I think there’s a word for this kind of thing. You know…like rain on your wedding day or ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/36 "2006-09-03T04:16:48Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] **Flying Dutchman** s response may yet prove to be instructive. Suppose that attitude is widely shared by some people, say a large portion of GeeDubs base, that mere Iraqis aren’t worthy of the same level of justice as we Americans. [/QUOTE] This might not be the pit, but I can’t stand by and allow this preposterous, stupid asinine juvenile cretinous and slanderous drivil to go unchallenged. You sir are a fucking evil idiot. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/37 "2006-09-03T04:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Kill them. I only regret the Army (the lead agency for executions) has moved from firing squad to lethal injection. Firing squads are drawn from the unit of the criminals. It tends to teach a very good lesson. [/QUOTE] They don’t deserve a firing squad. They’re common criminals and should be put to death in the same manner as common criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/38 "2006-09-03T04:24:38Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] This might not be the pit, but I can’t stand by and allow this preposterous, stupid asinine juvenile cretinous and slanderous drivil to go unchallenged. You sir are a fucking evil idiot. [/QUOTE] And I am not a GD mod, but I cannot allow this to go unchallenged. Personal insults are not allowed outside the pit. This is an official warning. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/39 "2006-09-03T11:27:33Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] “Being a soldier,” needless to say, is not powerful enough. [/QUOTE] Since the Uniform Code of Military Justice does provide for the death penalty for certain crimes, it’s quite obvious that “being a Soldier” is not grounds enough to protect a convicted individual from the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232/40 "2006-09-03T11:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Which is to say, sentence them but begin an exhaustively thorough appeals process. [/QUOTE] If sentenced to death, they get an exhaustive appeals process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-to-seek-death-penalty-for-accused-us-soldiers/371232.md?page=3)