# Army uniform - stripes on forearm **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068 "2006-02-05T03:57:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/21 "2006-02-05T20:50:10Z")
“Three up, three down” in the Army means E-7 and above, Sergeant First Class, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major. In the Marines and Airforce, E-9 gives you eight stripes, either Three Up Four Down(USMC) or three up five down (USAF). The most you get in the Navy is One Up, Three Down. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/22 "2006-02-05T21:42:10Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > There are also foreign service stripes, the compact rectangular ones, but only the Army uses them. That’s a new one on me (and I served my first enlistment in the Army). Since the length of service stripes go on the left arm of the dress greens and the combat service stripes go on the right arm of the dress greens, where would these foreign service stripes go? Or are you confusing the overseas service ribbon with stripes? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/23 "2006-02-05T21:46:34Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > “Three up, three down” in the Army means E-7 and above, Sergeant First Class, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major. [Sergeant First Class insignia is three up and two down.](http://www.uniforminsignia.net/index.php?p=show&id=65&sid=1270) ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/24 "2006-02-05T21:57:57Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > The proper term for the “rank stripes” on the upper portion of the uniform sleeves are chevrons. [nitpick]IIUC, the stripes themselves aren’t chevrons; the whole design is a chevron. That is, you can have “a chevron of five stripes” but not “five chevrons” on your uniform.[/nitpick] FWIW, during my short Air Force service I found myself completely baffled by Army uniforms. They’ve got so damn many patches and designs and logos, it makes my head spin. ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Bannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Race\_Bannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Bannon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/25 "2006-02-05T22:00:42Z")
Okay, from what I’ve read, I got that the stripes on the dress blue 1st Sgt. uniform I saw were for service. I’m also getting that on the “Class A” green uniform there are combat stripes, and somebody said something about foreign service stripes. I’m not sure what the Staright Dope is on this. (I am not interested in the rank insignia, I understand that - that’s how I knew he was 1st Sgt.) I’m also get that officers don’t wear them on the dress blue. But - I’m sure I’ve seen officers with stripes on their sleeves of the “class A” green coat. (I work around officers often, but rarely see them wearing their coat). Are these “combat stripes” and “service stripes”? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/26 "2006-02-05T22:07:16Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > In the Marines and Airforce, E-9 gives you **eight stripes,** either **Three Up Four Down(USMC)** or three up five down (USAF). [Bolding mine] 3+4 != 8 There has to be a Marine joke in here somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/27 "2006-02-05T22:40:12Z")
A General has a single stripe 1.5" wide and other officers have one .75" wide stripe on the coat sleeve. See [(BIG PDF)](http://www.marlowwhite.com/pdf/AR-670-1.pdf) Army Regulation 670-1, part 15-6 (reg page 68, pdf page 91). ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/28 "2006-02-05T22:55:38Z")
d’OH1 [overseas srvice stripes, USA](http://www.supertrooper.com/SvcStripes.htm) Yes, “Three Up/Three Down” in the US Army is E-8/E-9: Master Sergeant, Sergeant Major. “First Sergeant” can happen at E-7 or E-8. Look for a losenge(little diamond) in between the pointy things on top and the round arcs on bottom. Though I’m not sure that they’ve had First Sergeants at E-7 for a loooooooong time. Yes, USMC has seven at their Sergeant-Major rank, and E9 could also be Master Gunnery Sergeant. [linky linky](http://www.uspharmd.com/usmc/mcerankchart.htm) As for the [Air Force](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Air_Force_enlisted_rank_insignia) their highest enlisted grade, E-9, has three-up, five-down. This has been the case since about 1992 or so. Also, USAF used to have sergeants at E-4, but now the earliest NCO grade is at E-5, and is called staff sergeant, which corresponds to Army staff sergeant. This site [linky linky](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blstripehistory.htm) suggests that the chevrons and arcs are the individual components of the grade insiginia, and not a collective term. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/29 "2006-02-05T22:59:32Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > As for the [Air Force](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Air_Force_enlisted_rank_insignia) their highest enlisted grade, E-9, has three-up, five-down. This has been the case since about 1992 or so. Also, USAF used to have sergeants at E-4, but now the earliest NCO grade is at E-5, and is called staff sergeant, which corresponds to Army staff sergeant. I’m 98.7% positive that Staff Sgt in the Army is _not_ E-5. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/30 "2006-02-05T23:05:04Z")
I meant to type sergeant… Army Sergeant Major @ E-9 = AF Chief Master Sergeant Army Master Sergeant/First Sergeant @ E-8 = AF Senior Master Sergeant Army Sergeant 1st Class @ E-7 = AF Master Sergeant Army Staff Sergeant @ E-6 = AF Technical Sergeant Army Sergeant @ E-5 = AF Staff Sergeant Army Corporal/Specialist @ E-4 = AF Senior Airman ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/31 "2006-02-06T05:03:43Z")
> [@Sgt Schwartz](#): > > There is no manditory retirement age in the US Army. There are Retention Control Points (RCP’s). A person cannot remain in the Army beyond an RCP without achieving a higher rank, at which time there is a new RCP. An Army soldier can retire after 20 years of Active Duty. Guard and Reserve can retire after 20 also, but cannot draw retirement until he/she reaches 60 years of age. National Guard and reserve can generally serve until that time. I am not terribly clear about the RCP’s for them however. > > Combat stripes, or _hash_ marks are earned for every six calendar months spent in a combat zone. > > Sgt Schwartz That is incorrect. We have had several soldiers reach 60 years old without having 20 years in. Viet Nam vets who had large breaks in service before deciding to join the guard. They had to get waivers from National Guard Bureau to go past the manditory retirement age of 60. It’s only waiverable until age 62 if you can make your 20 by then. If not no waiver. We also had an E7 who was going to reach 60 during our deployment. He needed a flag level waiver to deploy. 60 is the manditory retirement age. This does not generally come up in active duty because who would stay in past 30 years? No higher retirement so there is no incentive. Like you said no retirement pay for the guard until 60 but retirement points add up until the day you retire which bumps up the amount of retirement pay. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/32 "2006-02-06T05:14:32Z")
> [@Race Bannon](#): > > Okay, from what I’ve read, I got that the stripes on the dress blue 1st Sgt. uniform I saw were for service. > > I’m also getting that on the “Class A” green uniform there are combat stripes, and somebody said something about foreign service stripes. I’m not sure what the Staright Dope is on this. > > (I am not interested in the rank insignia, I understand that - that’s how I knew he was 1st Sgt.) > > I’m also get that officers don’t wear them on the dress blue. > > But - I’m sure I’ve seen officers with stripes on their sleeves of the “class A” green coat. (I work around officers often, but rarely see them wearing their coat). Are these “combat stripes” and “service stripes”? Combat Stripes = Foreign Service Stripes. One for every 6 months in a combat zone. On the dress blue uniform enlised men wear gold service stripes on the sleeves which wrap around the entire sleeve. One for every three years. Same number on each sleeve. No combat stripes. Officers have one gold braid on each sleeve of the dress blue uniform. In the middle of the braid is a colored stripe. The color coresponds to the branch of the officer, yellow for armor, light blue for infantry etc. Officers do not wear service stripes on the green class A uniform. They will wear the combat stripes. Combat stripes are on the right sleeve and are horizontal to the ground. Enlisted service stripes are on the left sleeve and are diagonal. FTR I have been enlisted NCO and officer. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/33 "2006-02-06T05:32:19Z")
For Sgt Schwartz a quick [link](https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/reserve/soldierservices/guidance/agelimits.htm) to an Army site which mentions the mandatory retirement age. I don’t have the energy to find the actual regulation. Have you ever slogged through the internet looking for the right one? As I noted before it is waiverable (isn’t everything?) but you need a really good reason. There are other exceptions such as for general officers. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/34 "2006-02-06T06:46:01Z")
Yes, waivers can be found when needed. [Admiral Hyman Rickover](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_Rickover) set the record for age waivers, having served to the age of 82. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/35 "2006-02-06T10:53:59Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > As for the [Air Force](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Air_Force_enlisted_rank_insignia) their highest enlisted grade, E-9, has three-up, five-down. This has been the case since about 1992 or so. Also, USAF used to have sergeants at E-4, but now the earliest NCO grade is at E-5, and is called staff sergeant, which corresponds to Army staff sergeant. I love that the Air Force has three different ranks listed under “First Sergeant” Would the First Sergeant just be the seniormost sergeant in any given unit, or what? ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/36 "2006-02-06T12:51:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is incorrect. We have had several soldiers reach 60 years old without having 20 years in. Viet Nam vets \*\*who had large breaks in service \*\* before deciding to join the guard. They had to get waivers from National Guard Bureau to go past the manditory retirement age of 60. It’s only waiverable until age 62 if you can make your 20 by then. emphasis mine > [@](#): > > Guard and Reserve can retire after 20 also, but cannot draw retirement until he/she reaches 60 years of age Not to nitpick, Loach, but I believe the contidition that I stated in my post was that the service member must have 20 years of service before eligble for retirement. Also, I stated that the Guard and Reserve must be over 60 to be eligible to draw retirement pay. We currently have members of our unit that served on active duty in Viet Nam, and are serving on active duty now. The condition is that you have 20 years of service. A large break in service does not count as time in service. I never meant to imply that you **had** to retire at age 60, only that if the time in service requirement is met, the person would be eligible to draw retirement pay. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/37 "2006-02-06T13:05:01Z")
Allow me to clarify even further, I should have added to my last post, that the minimum age to be eligible to draw retirement pay in the Guard and Reserve is 60, however, the person must submit his/her retirement packet, have it approved and be retired from the service. This can happen after 20 years of service. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/38 "2006-02-06T16:35:06Z")
“First Sergeant” is a job, not a grade, just as “Command Sergeant Major” is a job, not a grade. The First Sergeant is the senior sergeant in the unit … the larger the unit, the higher corresponding grade. In the Army, the First Sergeants are a subset of those at E-8, and Command Sergeants Major are a subset of those at E-9. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/39 "2006-02-06T16:45:40Z")
> [@Sgt Schwartz](#): > > Allow me to clarify even further, I should have added to my last post, that the minimum age to be eligible to draw retirement pay in the Guard and Reserve is 60, however, the person must submit his/her retirement packet, have it approved and be retired from the service. This can happen after 20 years of service. I am not saying you have to stay in till 60 to be eligible to retire. I’m saying they kick you out at 60 even if you want to stay in, hence the mandatory in mandatory retirement. If you don’t have 20 you are out of luck. If you can make your 20 in a year or 2 they will waiver the age limit. Instead of mandatory retirement I should say mandatory separation. As of tomorrow I will have 17 years in. 12 in the guard. I have dealt with many soldier’s retirement and separation. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068/40 "2006-02-06T16:57:21Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > “First Sergeant” is a job, not a grade, just as “Command Sergeant Major” is a job, not a grade. > > The First Sergeant is the senior sergeant in the unit … the larger the unit, the higher corresponding grade. > > In the Army, the First Sergeants are a subset of those at E-8, and Command Sergeants Major are a subset of those at E-9. It is incorrect to call First Sergeant a job not a grade. Rank and grade are two different things but it is an important distinction. First Sergeant is a rank so is Command Sergeant Major. You could also use it as a job description but they have thier own rank ensignia. Just because it shares a grade with master sergeant does not mean it is not a rank. Specialist and Corporal are both ranks. They also happen to be the grade of E4. The first sergeant as a postion is the top sergeant in a company. If it is a company sized unit that slot is always an E8 position. If it is not a company then there is no 1SG. There will be a platoon sergeant or a NCOIC but not a first sergeant if there is no company. Sometimes due to manpower constraints an E7 will hold the slot but the company 1SG is always an E8 slot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-uniform-stripes-on-forearm/343068.md?page=3)