# Army - using the wrong Camouflage in Iraq? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530 "2004-01-08T23:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/1 "2004-01-08T23:53:03Z")
Does anyone know why the Army troops I see on TV wear green flak jackets over their desert camouflage? Do the flak jackets only come in 1 color? It seems to me that if you are wearing a big item that’s the wrong color it defeats the whole purpose of camouflage . ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/2 "2004-01-09T03:11:09Z")
I suppose the vests were purchased in green as most places are green. Seemed like a good idea at the time. However, a bit (even a big bit) or a contrasting color is not a completely bad thing. Even here is Saudi, there is lots of green stuff, especially in areas where people actually live. In Iraq, more so. The purpose of camouflage is (IMHO) not to make you look like something else, it just to make sure you don’t look like a person. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/3 "2004-01-09T03:57:41Z")
They are mage green camo pattern, but you can get (issued, if available) desert camo cloth covers for them. The cloth is not all that rugged, and soldiers may wish to not wear them. And in the state of the combat today, wearing brown won’t make a whit of difference, they are in vehicles or compounds, or walking through streets. Not hiding in the sand. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/4 "2004-01-09T04:09:04Z")
**made** green camo ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/5 "2004-01-09T04:11:09Z")
Just a side note: If you are interested in the subject, you might find the _Nova_ program on camouflage particularly interesting. It was one of their best. ---
**Author:** ![felix9x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@felix9x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/felix9x)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/6 "2004-01-09T04:41:45Z")
Its just a logistics issue. Since army did not have then on hand probably because they were not manufactured in the right color. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/7 "2004-01-09T04:54:54Z")
I forgot to mention the Saudi paratroops manning the (two) machine-gun nests outside my compound have green vests as often as brown ones. ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/8 "2004-01-09T05:10:05Z")
Why in the world would the Saudis need paratroops? Seems to me to be a self-conceit that has little real-world use or application. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/9 "2004-01-09T06:53:28Z")
Are you saying that there is little real-world use for paratroopers? Or just Saudi paratroopers??? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/10 "2004-01-09T10:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmg365 \* > Why in the world would the Saudis need paratroops? Seems to me to be a self-conceit that has little real-world use or application. Gee, I dunno - seems to me that given a choice between walking 80 or 100 miles in barren, baking desert and taking a plane or helicoptor to the spot, I’d take the plane ride even if I had to do my own landing at the end. It’s a way to get troops to a spot quickly, and they arrive fresh instead of exhausted. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/11 "2004-01-09T11:07:34Z")
Paratroops are a good way to cover a lot of ground with a few guys, the root of the conventional Saudi military situation. They also do a nice job as compound guards and seems to like me better since I started sending them the occasional Domino’s pizza whenever I get one. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/12 "2004-01-09T13:37:38Z")
I’m here in Iraq, this year. For a period of time last fall - there were no flak vests - demand for military/civilians/contractors drained the entire supply system. People were waiting to enter the country solely because of this. Better now. You can get either the desert camo pattern cover or a vest made with the desert camo fabric. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/13 "2004-01-09T14:19:17Z")
My friend was in Gulf War 1 and wore green camos throughout the war. 3 days before being shipped back desert camo showed up (without the usual paperwork). He was asked to return them. He refused because there was no record of him having recieved teh deset camo. Brian ---
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/14 "2004-01-09T16:19:12Z")
If wearing brown doesn’t matter now why do the use brown camo to begin with? It would be cheaper for everyone to wear green. I did see a special on camo , not sure whether it was on Nova or another channel, it was good. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/15 "2004-01-09T16:37:25Z")
There WERE times when hiding in the sand was important, just not so much today. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/16 "2004-01-09T16:42:47Z")
N9IWP… I disagree it has always been my experience that when the Shi’tte hits the fan the military records everything you are issued, but never seems to want any of it back. So far to new helmets, one still-in-the-box pro mask, many DCUs. I was holding out for Hummer when I was forced to retire. All in all I made a small profit. ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/17 "2004-01-10T08:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Paul in Saudi \* > **Paratroops are a good way to cover a lot of ground with a few guys, the root of the conventional Saudi military situation.** My question is not “what” are paratroopers, but rather why does the Saudi government even need them. When fighting in a desert environment, modern arrmies fight primarily with Mech Infantry, Cav and Armor. And as Gulf War 1 & 2 proved, airborne units fought primarily as straight leg infantry. Sure, if you want seize an airfield, like at Kandahar, or initiate behind-the-lines raids against limited objectives, an airborne assault with a platoon of Rangers will do just fine, _if_ it is a part of a combined-arms offensive thrust (cf. 2nd REP’s ill-fated jump into Dien Bien Phu, 1954). But when was the last time the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has ever had to operate in such a mode requiring such specialized troops? I daresay if there ever will be one, Mech Infantry and Armor will suit the Saudis for their METT-T considerations better than a bunch of lightly armed paratroopers ever would. Do the Saudies even know how to use Airborne forces? Or does the Saudi “Airborne” exist just for appearances sake? If it’s the latter, I’d say it’s a conceit. ---
**Author:** ![Gairloch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d2c977/32.png) [@Gairloch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gairloch)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/18 "2004-01-10T09:01:51Z")
kmg365. You must be an expert. Airborne troops hardly ever jump at night, for example, or create the element of surprise by appearing behind a hostile force. And it goes without saying that the Saudis have no allies who might not only help equip them but might lend, and learn, a few tips. Good thing you set us straight on that. Gairloch ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/19 "2004-01-10T11:23:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmg365 \* > \*\*Do the Saudies even know how to use Airborne forces? Or does the Saudi “Airborne” exist just for appearances sake? If it’s the latter, I’d say it’s a conceit. \*\* By that argument, why should _any_ defensive army have paratroops? Perhaps the Belgian and Dutch forces should get out of their planes and back in their tanks? ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530/20 "2004-01-10T12:09:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gairloch \* > \*\*kmg365. You must be an expert. Airborne troops hardly ever jump at night, for example, or create the element of surprise by appearing behind a hostile force. And it goes without saying that the Saudis have no allies who might not only help equip them but might lend, and learn, a few tips. Good thing you set us straight on that. > Gairloch \*\* What??!! Cites please. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **By that argument, why should any defensive army have paratroops? Perhaps the Belgian and Dutch forces should get out of their planes and back in their tanks?** Interesting, but METT-T considerations in Europe are different than SW Asia. Try reading FM7-7 in the meantime. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-using-the-wrong-camouflage-in-iraq/223530.md?page=2)