# Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey case **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008 "2006-08-16T20:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/261 "2006-08-19T02:28:54Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Just IMO I do not think the police would release a completely fictional autopsy report but I do think they would withhold certain details from the public autopsy report in some cases. [/QUOTE] I didn’t get a chance to ask him tonight, and now he’s asleep, but I’d guess that you probably have it right: they fudge a significant detail or two, such as omitting a mark that the killer intentionally left on the body-- something that only the killer would know. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/262 "2006-08-19T04:31:21Z")
Lissa, I’m looking into that, too, and will pass along my findings if I, uh, find any. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/263 "2006-08-19T05:20:41Z")
People I had dinner with tonight claimed that there was some cryptic writing in the “kidnapping” note, and that they had heard that this matched some cryptic writing in Karr’s yearbook. Since it was dinner, there were no citations. Any evidence of this? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/264 "2006-08-19T05:39:28Z")
Maybe it was [this](http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_230184850.html), which I can’t quite make any sense of. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/265 "2006-08-19T06:03:51Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] Maybe it was [this](http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_230184850.html), which I can’t quite make any sense of. [/QUOTE] That seems like a helluva stretch to me. Can’t recall which news outlet I read this on, but I believe an expert called in to compare the handwriting of the yearbook note with the ransom note didn’t find them similar. There’s no way in Hades to say anything for sure at this point, but my gut feeling at this point is he’s an obsessive loonie who didn’t do it. For what little that’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/266 "2006-08-19T07:23:32Z")
In the yearbook he wrote in part “I Shall Be The Conquerer” and people are thinking (not that I agree) that the SBTC is a referance to that phrase. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/267 "2006-08-19T13:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] In the yearbook he wrote in part “I Shall Be The Conquerer” and people are thinking (not that I agree) that the SBTC is a referance to that phrase. [/QUOTE] I agree. He actually wrote: \*Though deep in the future, maybe I shall be the conquerer (sic) and live in multiple peace." \* …and we get SBTC from that… why not DITF or LIMP or … Certainly the Ransom note is bogus - Certainly it was written on the spot under pressure in the Ramsey home … whoever wrote it (Karr, the Ramseys, or third unknown intruders)) was throwing crazy crap out there to mislead. I bet that SBTC - Subic Bay Training Center (where Ramsey was stationed), or Saved By the Cross are two just as good guesses and get to another point that worries me about Karr’s confession:John Ramsey doesn’t know him. JBR’s killer knew the home enough to creep around with JBR in tow and kill her and feed her pineapple and write the Ransom note and knew the amount for John Ramsey’s bonus. Maybe Karr had an accomplice who knew all this? That would make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Jean\_Poutine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a5b964/32.png) [@Jean\_Poutine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jean_Poutine)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/268 "2006-08-19T14:39:03Z")
Was the SBTC highlighted or bolded or something in the yearbook, or just a sentence in a paragraph? If it was highlighted, like that’s his creed or motto or something, that’s pretty damning, as SBTC is a pretty rare as far as acronyms (I know, it doesn’t spell a word, but I don’t know how else to refer to it) go, and if that one is important to him or something, it’s odd. And what do handwriting analysts make of the John Hancock on acid yearbook signature? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/269 "2006-08-19T14:47:43Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I didn’t get a chance to ask him tonight, and now he’s asleep, but I’d guess that you probably have it right: they fudge a significant detail or two, such as omitting a mark that the killer intentionally left on the body-- something that only the killer would know. [/QUOTE] I just asked him. He said that they actually used this tactic in one of the cases with which he assisted. You have to get a court order from a judge in order to be able to do this, otherwise it would be lying on an official document. The real autopsy is kept sealed and the one with false or redacted information is released. He said that they have done it even as far as changing the cause of death (e.g it’s put out that the victim died of stab wounds when it was really blunt force trauma.) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/270 "2006-08-19T18:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Subic Bay Training Center (where Ramsey was stationed) Yeah, that clearly has less relevance to the case than a phrase pulled out of an old yearbook (if it were his slogan, wouldn’t it be the more grammatical and sensical _"I_ shall be the conquerer"? A pity this investigation is living down to its usual standards. Gee, maybe _I_ killed her. I mean, I published a story once that included the phrase “ **s** he **b** uys **t** he **c** heese.” And I wasn’t anywhere near Colorado that Christmas. And my wife can provide that alabi. And I have never met the Ramseys. And I taught English at an overseas international school. And I’m planning a trip to southeast Asia. And I’m constantly talking about child welfare and abuse reporting issues. I’m not a pedophile, but I don’t see that as an obstacle to my confession. What say you? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/271 "2006-08-20T03:39:57Z")
This is really pegging my weird-o-meter to the far right. Anything new in this sad & odd case? As I see nothing in the morning papers, I presume the collective hive intelligence is starting to doubt this loon. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/272 "2006-08-20T06:00:04Z")
I first read about the arrest of Karr here on the boards, followed a half hour later by a news bulletin on the radio. Since then I have been keeping abreast of ‘developments’ both here and via our news sources in Australia. Interestingly, in todays newspaper, the reporting of the Ramsey case seems to now agree with those of you who prophesised that Karr is a nutjob who is (for whatever reason) claiming responsibility for JonBenet’s murder while quite probably not her assailant. Which now brings up the question…how the HELL has this been allowed to get so far, and with so much publicity? How on earth did, ‘Yet another loon confesses to Ramsey murder’ turn into ‘Ten-year old case SOLVED’ without adequate investigation and follow-up? Who released the info to the media, and what was their motivation? Is this just yet _another_ fuckup in the long and sordid saga? **That** is what puzzles me now. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/273 "2006-08-20T06:05:21Z")
[Latest AP](http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/08/20/2003323949) > [@](#): > > US officials, the only ones to have actually interrogated Karr, have been silent about what he told them, citing his right to privacy and legal procedures. > > But Thai officials have been characteristically casual about giving out information about the case, rarely qualifying its reliability. > [@](#): > > On Friday, Suwat backed off of certain details he had given of Karr’s story – details that had cast suspicion on his confession. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/274 "2006-08-20T06:10:51Z")
Oh, hey, here you go, [New York Daily Times](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4128621.html): > [@](#): > > Staff at the Pratunam Clinic, Thailand’s top transgender center, said Saturday that 41-year-old John Mark Karr was a patient of theirs — but wouldn’t say how close he was to getting “sexual reassignment” surgery. > > “Yes, he had treatment here,” a representative said. “He was our patient. He came a number of times. But we cannot give out details on his treatment as we are ethically bound to keep these things private.” > > The disclosure came a day after the Daily News reported that Karr sought cosmetic surgeons’ help changing his face in Bangkok. In his nine months there, he made 12 phone calls from his hotel room — nine of them to plastic surgeons. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/275 "2006-08-20T06:18:42Z")
[JonBenet suspect expected in U.S. Sunday](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060820/ap_on_re_us/jonbenet_ramsey). [Here](http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/) is a link to Court TV’s page devoted to stories about the case. [Karr’s confession aside, conviction hinges on forensics](http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4926252,00.html)[No Neat Endings for the JonBenet Case](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1228716,00.html) [Karr confession raises “red flags” among experts](http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4199815) are some of the more recent headlines. There is no further word on whether or not Karr’s ex-wife and brother have produced those photographs proving he was not in Colorado, but was with them during and after Christmas, but I’d wager they will present such evidence to the lawyer that has been hired for Karr, or the D.A., and not the media. **Shoshana** , check some of my other posts, I posted a link to an article giving the retraction a while ago, as well as a link to a timeline of Karr’s movements over the years. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/276 "2006-08-20T06:25:12Z")
The link to the timeline with Karr’s movement pattern is in this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369833&page=1&pp=50), (post number 99) I thought I had put it here. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/277 "2006-08-20T06:37:43Z")
Thanks! The link I posted (which I figured was stupidity) is still live, with an Aug. 19, 2006, 11:34PM stamp. Here’s another amusing [tidbit:](http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4206818) > [@](#): > > “You must conclude either Mary Lacy has solid, conclusive evidence or this is massive prosecutorial incompetence,” Silverman said. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/278 "2006-08-20T06:39:24Z")
Ah–I’m referring to the unlikely sex change one; you’re referring to my post above it, I’ll bet! ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/279 "2006-08-20T06:51:54Z")
:eek: [QUOTE=from link in post 277] \Though the Boulder County district attorney’s office had enough undisclosed evidence to get a judge to order Karr’s arrest in Thailand on a first-degree murder count, it was only after the warrant was issued that investigators started asking questions experts say would form the bedrock of a successful homicide prosecution. For example, it wasn’t until Wednesday morning, after Karr was in Thai custody on that warrant, that a representative of Boulder DA Mary Lacy’s office called the Marion County School District in Hamilton, Ala., where Karr once taught, to seek anything in Karr’s handwriting for comparison to the ransom note allegedly left by JonBenet’s killer. \ [/QUOTE] The article goes on to say they have not asked the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to compare Karr’s DNA with the evidence from the crime scene, nor have they tried to track his teaching history, or even contacted his family/ex-wife to see if they could prove his whereabouts at the time of the crime! I am leaning towards massive incompetence, or pure dumb luck, on the off chance this guy is not completely round the bend and really did do the crime. Yeah, I was referring to the retractions made as to what was (not) part of the details in Karr’s confession. S’ok. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/280 "2006-08-20T07:07:40Z")
…or they don’t think he’s a viable suspect and they’re not planning to waste more resources on him. I can’t wait to see the DNA results. How long would it take to run a comparison? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008.md?page=15)