# Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey case **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008 "2006-08-16T20:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/341 "2006-08-24T20:37:51Z")
[QUOTE=jimmmy] **DtC** I agree. Do you agree that the Housekeeper saying “I never said any of that” and to a lesser extent throwing up a lawsuit over it is isgnificant? [/quote] I would probaby place more credibility in it if she herself hadn’t accused Patsy Ramsey of murdering her child and writing the ransom note. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/342 "2006-08-24T20:42:45Z")
[QUOTE=jimmmy] **DtC** I agree. Do you agree that the Housekeeper saying “I never said any of that” and to a lesser extent throwing up a lawsuit over it is isgnificant? Because if you do we are in total agreement. Because I guess, for me, this episode is less about the correctness of Patsy saying this to police (assuming it is true) – nor as I say to ouryL is it important as what Georgia law considers technical libel: To me the episode is important that at last in this case we have a place where we can say with certainty ‘one party here is lying’ – not mistaken or pushed by bumbling cops or interfering prosecutors or silenced by defense Lawyers or Department Policy or Testimony embargoes or cast in the worst/best possible light by the media or speculated about on a message board … somebody here close to the heart of the case is telling a fib [/QUOTE] And? It could easily be that the housekeeper did indeed say something weird about “kidnapping” and, then realizing that such a discussion would be private and thus impossible to prove, simply denounce it just to make sure she didn’t get put under any police suspicion. Innocent people aren’t above lying. And then after awhile maybe said housekeeper spoke with a lawyer (maybe she hired a lawyer when the police questioned her, in fact) who said, “You know, Patsy Ramsey may have libelled you” the housekeeper then thinks “yeah, and the Ramseys are rich, time to cash in.” It could easily be the housekeeper who lied, but didn’t murder JonBenet. It could also easily be the case that the housekeeper simply _didn’t remember_ her statement to Patsy Ramsey. I personally do not remember everything I have said in my life. Now, if Patsy Ramsey is lying, then that is probably a more nefarious sign. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/343 "2006-08-24T20:45:17Z")
It’s also possible on the matter of being kicked out of her house that the housekeeper is lying, but again, has nothing to do with the murder. Maybe the housekeeper _told_ Patsy Ramsey she was in desperate need for $2,500 and created a sob story just so she could be sure she would get the money from the Ramseys. A less likely alternative is the housekeeper _was_ being kicked out of her house but later lied about said fact, that is less likely because such a lie in that case could have been exposed by now with a simple interview of the housekeeper’s land lord (her sister.) If the first lie is the case, the housekeeper has a vested interest in not sharing to the world she was lying to her employers to get extra money. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/344 "2006-08-24T20:56:40Z")
And now, folks, a mindreader from the Houston Chronicle recites for us the [thoughts of the killer Karr](http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/4137428.html): > [@](#): > > Inside the mind of John Mark Karr: > > Don’t worry, I won’t take you all the way inside my mind — I have to save something for my Barbara Walters interview! > > But I will tell you three things. I am the logical culmination — or at least predictable result — of three cultural trends visible during my 41 years on this Earth: First, baby-boomer hedonism. Second, rights-based legal proceduralism. And third, the media’s enabling of what I regard as “authentic” behavior. Gotta hand it to the guy – he even managed to shoehorn in a swipe at Hillary. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/345 "2006-08-24T21:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] The grate may not have been next to ground, it could be there was concrete cover there, I for one do not know. [/QUOTE] I do know, though only because there was a show on the other night My wife wanted to watch in which a retired Boulder detective who disagreed with the department’s suspicions of the Ramseys showed how easy it would’ve been for an intruder to lift the grate and go in through the broken window. It was roughly flush with the ground, raised only a couple inches. > [@](#): > > I also do not know that the conditions of the yard were such that a fairly inexperienced police department … (etc) Agreed, thus my “All of that presumes the police were looking,” comment. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/346 "2006-08-25T00:01:23Z")
**Martin Hyde** maybe all that. Maybe Hoffman-Pugh really had said that and that’s what gave a panicked Patsy the idea in the wee hours to fake a bogus kidnapping and claim her housekeeper did it and then the panicked Housekeeper denied saying it. Maybe. Or not. I don’t dispute anything you said. Maybe indeed. **DtC** -Unless we think Hoffman-Pugh is guilty I say she has a right to say what she wants about Patsy Ramsey whose false (right? anyone say different?) [accusation](http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_908832,00.html) [utterly](http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20030617/NEWS/306170002) and completely destroyed Hoffman-Pugh’s life. You speak eloquently for Patsy but haven’t much to say for this [woman](http://www.slate.com/id/2147945/) ? FTR as the Ramsey’s Lawyer Lin Wood has noted Hoffman-Pugh was Patsy’s biggest [supporter](http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4506&page=6) – until (And what Lin Wood’s linked statement shockingly :rolleyes: leaves out) Patsy made public, for her own gain and purposes, her accusations against Hoffman-Pugh (re-read those last few words). ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/347 "2006-08-25T00:31:45Z")
Here’s [url=[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-23-karr-evidence\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-23-karr-evidence_x.htm)]USAToday’s[/ur]] latest: > [@](#): > > A possible link to the ransom note was suggested by the parents of Karr’s first wife, who told the Associated Press they had discovered letters the suspect wrote to their daughter. They were signed “S.B.T.C.,” initials that also were written on the ransom note. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/348 "2006-08-25T13:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] Here’s [url=[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-23-karr-evidence\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-23-karr-evidence_x.htm)]USAToday’s[/ur]] latest: [/QUOTE] I wonder if the letters were written before or after the murder. If before, thats pretty darn incriminating. If he was writing these letters after the murder and his obsession with it, he may have simply adopted the killers signature. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/349 "2006-08-26T04:50:56Z")
Or if it’s accurate. His ex-wives’ families generally seem to loathe him. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/350 "2006-08-26T05:01:28Z")
I believe in my heart of hearts that, regardless how this turns out, pretty much everybody who knows about this case will loathe him. He seems pretty loathesome. Then again some will point out how I shouldn’t loathe somebody as crazy as him, that Christian charity should lead us to pity him instead. So I’ll loathe what he did, be it murder, pedophilia, or just general creepiness, and pity him. God, I hate playing nice. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/351 "2006-08-27T21:36:39Z")
I have been hearng for a couple of days about testing Karr’s DNA. I don’t recall ever hearing that unidentifiable DNA had been found at the crime scene. I would have thought the Ramseys and their attorneys would have trumpeted that far and wide at the time, as it’s pretty strong exculpatory evidence from their point of view. Can anyone fill me in on this? Is my memory faulty? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/352 "2006-08-27T21:51:16Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I have been hearng for a couple of days about testing Karr’s DNA. I don’t recall ever hearing that unidentifiable DNA had been found at the crime scene. I would have thought the Ramseys and their attorneys would have trumpeted that far and wide at the time, as it’s pretty strong exculpatory evidence from their point of view. Can anyone fill me in on this? Is my memory faulty? [/QUOTE] There was DNA of unknown origin on JonBenet’s panties, but the Boulder, PD quickly discovered that it could simply have come from someone in the factory where they were sewn. ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/353 "2006-08-27T22:26:04Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] There was DNA of unknown origin on JonBenet’s panties, but the Boulder, PD quickly discovered that it could simply have come from someone in the factory where they were sewn. [/QUOTE] Really? Does the DNA hang on after the underpants are laundered? Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/354 "2006-08-27T22:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=Caprese] Really? Does the DNA hang on after the underpants are laundered? Just wondering. [/QUOTE] Apparently so, but don’t forget that the DNA tests they were using back then were considerably less sophisticated than the ones we have today. It may have simply been that they got a “hit” with their DNA tests, and couldn’t tell from the _condition_ of the DNA how long it’d been there. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/355 "2006-08-28T19:58:17Z")
Just came across the wire on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com). Discuss! ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/356 "2006-08-28T20:26:27Z")
[QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] Just came across the wire on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com). Discuss! [/QUOTE] Our long national nightmare is not over. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/357 "2006-08-28T20:42:48Z")
CNN news banner now reads “DA drops charges”. again I ask - what wine goes best w/crow? ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/358 "2006-08-28T20:44:15Z")
He just wanted a first class ticket to the states? ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/359 "2006-08-28T20:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] He just wanted a first class ticket to the states? [/QUOTE] Well, it was business class, so the joke was on **him**! ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/360 "2006-08-28T20:53:32Z")
Really? But still, how inconsiderate. How is the media supposed to get rid of their hard-on now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008.md?page=19)