# Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey case **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008 "2006-08-16T20:50:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/381 "2006-08-29T02:54:29Z")
In a case that’s already generated so many ill-informed statements, we can add one more. With the charges dropped aginst Karr, public defender Seth Temin denounced his extradiction: _“We’re deeply distressed by the fact that they took this man and dragged him here from Bangkok, Thailand with no forensic evidence confirming the allegations against him, and no independent factors leading to a presumption that he did anything wrong.”_ That’s right; no forensic evidence, no independent factors, no real evidence EXCEPT FOR A CONFESSION! I’m not saying that a confession proves Karr was guilty. I understand all about false confessions. But I hardly think the authorities can be accused of over-reacting by taking somebody into custody if they confess to a crime. For Temin to pretend Karr was being railroaded is nothing but pure bullshit. Especially when, with all the charges dropped, Temin has no legal duty towards Karr. This appears to just be Temin taking a personal shot at people in other parts of the legal system. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/382 "2006-08-29T03:07:31Z")
I thought I had problems in my life. Mister Karr deserves a chapter in the Forensic Psychology texts. This is more evidence in my arsenal against confessions. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/383 "2006-08-29T03:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] This is more evidence in my arsenal against confessions. [/QUOTE] exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/384 "2006-08-29T03:37:04Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Don’t forget the kiddy porn conviction in California. [/QUOTE] Presumably you mean the kiddy porn accusation. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/385 "2006-08-29T04:59:43Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I hardly think the authorities can be accused of over-reacting by taking somebody into custody if they confess to a crime. _(snip)_ [/QUOTE] I don’t know for sure but I don’t think Carr was ever under arrest in Thailand. Didn’t the Thai police round him up because they were kicking him out of the country as an undesirable? Not as an extradition? U.S. authorities kept a close watch on him and sat near him on the plane, but I believe they did not take custody of him until he landed in Los Angeles. Some analysis of Carr’s cozy business-class arrangements opined that perhaps police pampered him because they were trying to get him to give up information. Info that could be used in court because he wasn’t under arrest so there was no need to Mirandize him. [QUOTE=Little Nemo] _(snip)_ For Temin to pretend Karr was being railroaded is nothing but pure bullshit. Especially when, with all the charges dropped, Temin has no legal duty towards Karr. [/QUOTE] Might he have some legal duty towards Carr if his client (Carr) believes he was unfairly handled by officers who work in that jurisdiction? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/386 "2006-08-29T05:26:48Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] That’s right; no forensic evidence, no independent factors, no real evidence EXCEPT FOR A CONFESSION! [/QUOTE] OTOH, they could have saved several business class air fares and maybe called his ex-wife (the same one who took out a restraining order against him in 2001) and asked for her what hubby was up to over xmas 96. It’s called police work. Pretty basic police work at that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/387 "2006-08-29T05:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] With the charges dropped aginst Karr, public defender Seth Temin denounced his extradiction: _“We’re deeply distressed by the fact that they took this man and dragged him here from Bangkok, Thailand with no forensic evidence confirming the allegations against him, and no independent factors leading to a presumption that he did anything wrong.”_ That’s right; no forensic evidence, no independent factors, no real evidence EXCEPT FOR A CONFESSION! [/QUOTE] So the lawyer was right. There was no forensic evidence and no evidence of any other kind except an _alleged_ confession. I’m not agreeing with the lawyer, but there was a certain “we might as well arrest this guy” vibe to these proceedings. They didn’t have much on him, but they didn’t have anything else either. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/388 "2006-08-29T06:11:34Z")
Does anybody mind if I start referring to Mr. Karr as “Stan Shunpike”? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/389 "2006-08-29T08:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Presumably you mean the kiddy porn accusation. [/QUOTE] I understood that he was convicted in abstensia? Am I mistaken in that recollection? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/390 "2006-08-29T08:41:41Z")
The ever reliable [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mark_Karr#2001_arrest) claims > [@](#): > > 2001 arrest > On April 13, 2001, Karr was arrested for possession of child pornography. He pleaded not guilty four days later. On October 5, 2001, after a series of court hearings, Karr was released from jail, but was ordered to report to a probation officer. The court records in the case were sealed. In December 2001, Karr failed to appear and a “No Bail” warrant was issued by a Sonoma County Superior Court Judge. Since then Karr has been on the run, living in Asia, Europe and South America, until his arrest in Thailand. [ABC](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2326817&page=2) claims > [@](#): > > 2001 > > April 13: Karr was arrested on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography, the Sonoma County sheriff’s office said. > > April 17: Karr pleaded not guilty to the charges, according to court documents. > > April: The Sonoma County School District where Karr sometimes substitute-taught received a letter from the county superintendent of education to say Karr had been taken off the list of acceptable substitutes, after the Sonoma sheriff’s office notified school officials he had been arrested. > > Oct. 5: After a series of court hearings, Karr was released from jail, but was ordered to report to a probation officer and avoid child pornography, children and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks. The court records in the case were sealed. > > December: A warrant was issued for Karr’s arrest after authorities said he violated the terms of his supervised release. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/391 "2006-08-29T11:38:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If you rad that post carefully, you’ll see that I never said he was guilty. Nor did I say anywhere else in this thread or any other thread. [/QUOTE] I read the post carefully. You cannot read your OP as making any sense at all, unless you thought that Karr’s arrest and confession was somehow not just relevant, but important, in showing that the Ramsey’s didn’t do it. I know how this goes from here on out. You will come in and deny the implications made clear in the OP, weasel around a little, play whatever word games you want, and deny you made yet another mistake. The only thing I don’t know is who you are going to blame for your jumping, once again, to a wrong conclusion; the news media or the police. And I seriously don’t care enough to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/392 "2006-08-29T13:04:37Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] As I said [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7724824&posted=1#post7724824), it’s not as if Karr had a choice about what class he flew in. Nor did he initiate a “confession.”. [/QUOTE] _““It tarnished my princess (whacking her over the head with a flashlight)… the trauma to her head haunts me — so horrible,” Karr said in an April e-mail to Tracey. Karr said that her death by asphyxiation had been an accident, that he unintentionally had suffocated her while the two were engaged in sexual activity. “Slow pressure was applied to her neck until oxygen was gradually deprived,” Karr said in an April e-mail…”_ Source: [abcnews.com](http://abcnews.com) Nah, he didn’t “initiate a confession”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/393 "2006-08-29T14:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] I read the post carefully. You cannot read your OP as making any sense at all, unless you thought that Karr’s arrest and confession was somehow not just relevant, but important, in showing that the Ramsey’s didn’t do it. [/quote] No, it was just a little satisfaction at seeing the media have to give credence to another possibility- as I clarified in subsequent posts that same day. > [@](#): > > I know how this goes from here on out. You will come in and deny the implications made clear in the OP, weasel around a little, play whatever word games you want, and deny you made yet another mistake. The only thing I don’t know is who you are going to blame for your jumping, once again, to a wrong conclusion; the news media or the police. And I seriously don’t care enough to find out. I didn’t jump to any conclusions. You’re just full of shit and can’t read. I clarified in subsequent posts that same day that I wasn’t saying he was guilty. Also, fuckface, my OP was directed at the media and I’M NOT IN THE MEDIA. You thought you had a 'gotcha" but you didn’t. It’s ok, you made a mistake. You fucked up and didn’t read my posts carefully enough. I don’t mind. Just apologize and we’ll move on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/394 "2006-08-29T16:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] I read the post carefully. You cannot read your OP as making any sense at all, unless you thought that Karr’s arrest and confession was somehow not just relevant, but important, in showing that the Ramsey’s didn’t do it. I know how this goes from here on out. You will come in and deny the implications made clear in the OP, weasel around a little, play whatever word games you want, and deny you made yet another mistake. The only thing I don’t know is who you are going to blame for your jumping, once again, to a wrong conclusion; the news media or the police. And I seriously don’t care enough to find out. [/QUOTE] Right- there is no reason at all to even post your OP in the 1st place if you didn’t assume guilt on the part of Karr- 'cause if Karr wasn’t guilty then his arrest makes no difference as to the Ramsey’s guilt or innocence and the Media’s treatment of them. _Don’t weasel_. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/395 "2006-08-29T17:03:11Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] > [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > Presumably you mean the kiddy porn accusation. I understood that he was convicted in abstensia? Am I mistaken in that recollection? 😕 [/QUOTE] That’s what CBS News said and they’re presumably more reliable than Wiki. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/396 "2006-08-29T17:09:32Z")
[San Jose Mercury News](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/15387179.htm): > [@](#): > > Karr disappeared from Sonoma County in 2001 and apparently fled the country after he was released from jail on bond pending trial on the child porn charges. He was later convicted in absentia. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/397 "2006-08-29T18:04:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No, it was just a little satisfaction at seeing the media have to give credence to another possibility- as I clarified in subsequent posts that same day. [/quote] Yep, you posted an inflammatory OP that clearly indicates that the Ramsey’s were ill treated because now there’s a guy who confessed to the crime. Later, you do backpedal away from that. Good on you for that. But even later you say: "According to reports, they’ve been tracking this guy for months and he’s been on a list of potential suspects from the beginning. Plus, he apparently knows some details which have never been made public. I really don’t think they’d fly the guy back from Thailand and tip off the Ramseys months in advance if it was only some guy trying to confess as a ploy to get transferred back to the US." I was almost classic **Dio** , where you fly off the handle, then backpedal while blaming anyone but yourself, and then defend your original idiocy. > [@Dio](#): > > I didn’t jump to any conclusions. You’re just full of shit and can’t read. I clarified in subsequent posts that same day that I wasn’t saying he was guilty. And then you intimated he was. Your clarification was nothing more than another attempt to cover your ass after you post an inflammatory OP and don’t get your facts straight. I liked it better when you were just an idiot and not an idiot who has to backpedal all the time. > [@Dio](#): > > Also, fuckface, my OP was directed at the media and I’M NOT IN THE MEDIA. I like the “fuckface”. It adds a lot to your point. Which was what again? > [@Dio](#): > > You thought you had a 'gotcha" but you didn’t. It’s ok, you made a mistake. You fucked up and didn’t read my posts carefully enough. I don’t mind. Just apologize and we’ll move on. I’m sorry you’re a douchebag. Is that apology enough? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/398 "2006-08-29T18:38:52Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] Yep, you posted an inflammatory OP that clearly indicates that the Ramsey’s were ill treated because now there’s a guy who confessed to the crime. [/quote] What’s imflammatory about saying “fuck you” to the media? I also never said the Ramseys were “ill-treated” by anyone BIT the media. > [@](#): > > Later, you do backpedal away from that. Good on you for that. But even later you say: "According to reports, they’ve been tracking this guy for months and he’s been on a list of potential suspects from the beginning. > > Plus, he apparently knows some details which have never been made public. Was any of that not objevctively true? Is reprting factual information somehow unfaiir or imflammatory? > [@](#): > > I really don’t think they’d fly the guy back from Thailand and tip off the Ramseys months in advance if it was only some guy trying to confess as a ploy to get transferred back to the US." Is there anything in that opinion which is unreasonable? Is there anything in which amounts to an assumption of guilt? > [@](#): > > I was almost classic **Dio** , where you fly off the handle, then backpedal while blaming anyone but yourself, and then defend your original idiocy. I backpedalled off of nothing because I made no accusations. My assumption that Boulder must have had more reason than an uncorrorated “confession” to fly him back from Thailand (and “fly him back” does not equal “convict”) turned out to be erroneous but it was not unreasonable and was not, in itself, a declaration that he must be guilty. > [@](#): > > And then you intimated he was [guilty] No I didn’t. I intimated that there must have been a good reason to _extradite him from Thailand_. > [@](#): > > Your clarification was nothing more than another attempt to cover your ass after you post an inflammatory OP What was imflammatory about it? > [@](#): > > and don’t get your facts straight. What facts did I get wrong? > [@](#): > > I like the “fuckface”. It adds a lot to your point. Which was what again? My point was that my OP was directed only at the media and that I’m not in the media, so any attempt to find hypocrisy on my part is a non-starter. I never directed anything at private individuals who thought the Ramseys were guilty. My OP was a taunt at the media and the media alone. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/399 "2006-08-29T18:55:53Z")
**DtC** - _please_ dude! You bring a lot to this board, don’t go down in flames over this. You were wrong- admit it, and let life go on. Otherwise this will haunt you for a looooong time. I’m pleading with you. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008/400 "2006-08-29T18:58:46Z")
I wasn’t wrong. I never fucking said the guy was guilty. Plus I"M NOT IN THE FUCKING MEDIA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrest-made-in-jonbenet-ramsey-case/369008.md?page=21)