# Arrested and charged with inciting hatred for pictures of poppy burning posted to facebook. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 11, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571 "2011-11-11T04:32:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/21 "2011-11-12T03:25:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, remember, hate crime laws, as distinct from hate speech laws or campus-rules, newly-criminalize no behavior… And this is an absolute rule? Does it really matter whether you call this a “hate crime” law or a “hate speech” law, when the intent and the result is the same? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/22 "2011-11-12T13:01:20Z")
> [@Ashes\_Ashes](#): > > I came in here wanting to know how burning\* poopies\* could be a hate crime. > > Now I have to wonder if burning poppies would actually incite hatred. IMHO, if I wasn’t already inclined toward hatred, that video wouldn’t change my mind. It could provoke a violent reaction from unionists, which presumably is the point of the arrest. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/23 "2011-11-13T18:16:30Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > And this is an absolute rule? Does it really matter whether you call this a “hate crime” law or a “hate speech” law, when the intent and the result is the same? Yes, it matters. Because people use stupid results of laws like these, and other hate speech laws to critique hate crime laws, despite them being very different things. There’s perfectly legitimate arguments against both, but the opponents of hate crime laws shouldn’t be able to latch on to things like this as a defense of their position. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/24 "2011-11-19T18:48:48Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > Just kids being stupid, so criminal charges are totally inappropriate. > > And while I would never be so crass and offensive as to burn a poppy, there is a growing sense among some people in the UK (me included) that the symbol of the poppy is being co-opted into a political “my country right or wrong” nationalist symbol, rather than simply a memorial for the fallen. > > “Support the troops” very quickly gets turned into “Support the war”, which is a different sentiment entirely. If thats you opinion then fair enough, but please don’t represent it as everyone elses views because it isn’t . ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/25 "2012-11-11T23:42:01Z")
And it has happened again: [Police arrest man for posting picture of burning a poppy.](http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/11/12/police-arrest-man-for-posting-picture-of-burning-a-poppy/) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/26 "2012-11-12T01:18:23Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > And it has happened again: [Police arrest man for posting picture of burning a poppy.](http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/11/12/police-arrest-man-for-posting-picture-of-burning-a-poppy/) Well, they are being fair. They went after a Brit in Kent, this time. It is a stupid law, but they seem intent on enforcing it evenly, (if stupidly). ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/27 "2012-11-12T01:22:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, they are being fair. They went after a Brit in Kent, this time. > > It is a stupid law, but they seem intent on enforcing it evenly, (if stupidly). Oh to be clear, I never thought the kids in the North were arrested because they were Irish, just that this is a lousy application of the law, be it in NI or in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/28 "2012-11-12T01:29:09Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I don’t think the simple act of burning poppies is illeagal in Northern Ireland. So in this case something that isn’t illegal is being made illegal by the law because of the message it conveys. That would seem to me to be a pretty clear definition of a law that limits freedom of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/29 "2012-11-12T15:14:41Z")
I heard this on Radio 4 on the way into work this morning and was amazed at how draconian the laws in the UK are becoming. As stated earlier burning poppies and flags may be assholish behaviour, but it shouldn’t necessarily be defined as hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/30 "2012-11-12T17:34:59Z")
The Malicious Communications Act 2003 strikes again! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/31 "2012-11-12T20:24:27Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > That would seem to me to be a pretty clear definition of a law that limits freedom of speech. You know this isn’t in the US, right? That said, arresting anyone for either burning a poppy (and I’m assuming it’s the paper buttonhole poppies, of course) or posting a picture of such is ludicrous. It’s a shitty thing to do, but shouldn’t be illegal. Those poppies are made by former servicemen whose disabilities make it difficult for them to find other work. The company they work for, reemploy, gets a subsidy from the govt. The current govt has withdrawn said subsidy. Makes it extra hypocritical for them to arrest people for burning said poppies. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571/32 "2012-11-13T14:09:33Z")
Most of them are made by [The Royal British Legion Poppy Factory Ltd](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_Factory), with 5 million slightly different ones being made by the [Earl Haig Fund Scotland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Haig_Fund_Scotland) charity (which I see is now apparently also part of the British Legion). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-and-charged-with-inciting-hatred-for-pictures-of-poppy-burning-posted-to-facebook/602571.md?page=1)