# Arrested for overdue library book **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 2, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907 "2013-11-02T03:57:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/121 "2013-11-05T18:07:42Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Guess what I did? I paid the $20 replacement fee without complaining, because yeah, I put their book out where anyone could take it. My fault.ercussion everyone agrees is fine - and he refused to. That is theft. I’d have told them to get stuffed. If I were wealthy enough, I’d try to have charges brought against them; it sounds like a sweet little racket they have going, supplying a too-small return box then demanding money. It’s as though librarians and libraries are automatically considered paragons of virtue, as unassailable as the pope on the witness stand. Must be cultural. Everyone should demand a receipt for each and every book returned to protect against accusations of theft. That guy arrested for not returning a book should have said he had. Arrested and jailed for not returning a book justifies the killing of puppies if that’s what it take to beat the rap. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/122 "2013-11-05T18:13:26Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Since public libraries have limited funds then if the GED guide was replaced – which involves more than just buying a new copy, it also needs to be processed and the catalog record has to be updated – that took away time and money that could have been spent on other materials and services. Libraries barring the public would save a lot of fuss and bother. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/123 "2013-11-05T18:14:50Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > We don’t? 😕 Not from that quote we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/124 "2013-11-05T18:23:22Z")
My guess as to the confusion is that you and I are interpreting that in a different way. To me, it sounded like **TBG** ’s mom found the book in the library, thus ending her “overdue” problem. You are interpreting that she got the notices, then eventually they stopped, because they had found the book in the library. Which of these interpretations is correct is not clear from the phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/125 "2013-11-05T18:50:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > My guess as to the confusion is that you and I are interpreting that in a different way. To me, it sounded like **TBG** ’s mom found the book in the library, thus ending her “overdue” problem. You are interpreting that she got the notices, then eventually they stopped, because they had found the book in the library. Which of these interpretations is correct is not clear from the phrasing. It says she eventually found the book. The she in question is clearly the mother, who went to the shelf and found it there. Had the book been misshelved in addition to not properly checked back in, she’d have been screwed. The patron searching the library for the returned book is not part of the system, which obviously failed. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/126 "2013-11-05T18:53:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t help it. I want to be mean and crush weaker people. Not my fault: mom smoked, drank, and did crack while she was pregnant, so that’s why I’m mean and want to crush people now. > > What happens now? We try to help you learn to control these impulses, removing you from access to potential victims if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/127 "2013-11-05T18:59:03Z")
Then we should be arresting people who don’t return library books. As that is removing their access to more potential victims, other library books. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/128 "2013-11-05T19:31:11Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > It says she eventually found the book. The she in question is clearly the mother, who went to the shelf and found it there. > Had the book been misshelved in addition to not properly checked back in, she’d have been screwed. The patron searching the library for the returned book is not part of the system, which obviously failed. Why did the system fail? Until the patron alerts the library that there is a problem, no hunt for an unchecked in/misshelved item can begin. Are we supposed to be mindreaders? Nevermind, I already know the answer to that, of course we’re supposed to be mindreaders. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/129 "2013-11-05T20:26:47Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Why did the system fail? Until the patron alerts the library that there is a problem, no hunt for an unchecked in/misshelved item can begin. Are we supposed to be mindreaders? > > Nevermind, I already know the answer to that, of course we’re supposed to be mindreaders. Exactly, we’re not mind readers. Until **TBG** comes back, we don’t know exactly what happened with the story as given. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/130 "2013-11-05T21:08:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Exactly, we’re not mind readers. Until **TBG** comes back, we don’t know exactly what happened with the story as given. Le sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/131 "2013-11-05T21:37:33Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > I’d have told them to get stuffed. > > If I were wealthy enough, I’d try to have charges brought against them; it sounds like a sweet little racket they have going, supplying a too-small return box then demanding money. > > It’s as though librarians and libraries are automatically considered paragons of virtue, as unassailable as the pope on the witness stand. Must be cultural. Everyone should demand a receipt for each and every book returned to protect against accusations of theft. > > That guy arrested for not returning a book should have said he had. Arrested and jailed for not returning a book justifies the killing of puppies if that’s what it take to beat the rap. I don’t know about you but I take responsibility for my actions, which means when I leave other people’s stuff out where it can be stolen and it predictably gets stolen, that’s my fault. Furthermore, the library said that since the drop was full, they would have refunded any fines for that day had I kept the book another day. So no, there’s no racket. I far prefer the system of being able to drop off books quickly and whenever I darn well please to yet another line where I wait for a slip of paper I’m going to throw away anyway. I’m not exactly scared by the specter of “Libraries will accuse everyone of theft just to get money! oooOOOOoooo!” because it doesn’t happen. (“Doesn’t happen” being a small enough percentage to not be applicable. Somewhere, one unscrupulous employee in a library scammed someone out of money this month. That isn’t enough for anyone to care about in the grand question of “Are libraries out to get you”) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/132 "2013-11-05T21:42:19Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Le sigh. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/133 "2013-11-05T22:25:34Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Furthermore, the library said that since the drop was full, they would have refunded any fines for that day had I kept the book another day. So no, there’s no racket. You should have said so. > [@](#): > > I’m not exactly scared by the specter of “Libraries will accuse everyone of theft just to get money! oooOOOOoooo!” because it doesn’t happen. Obviously, it does. You haven’t been jailed for late return of a book. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/134 "2013-11-05T23:33:15Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Of course a public library is not a for-profit business like Enterprise, but a public library is also not your friend that lends you books because it likes you and thinks you’d enjoy a good read. The public library lends you books because its purpose is to provide the public with access to information that many people could not easily pay for themselves. If Mr. Enck had borrowed that GED study guide from a friend and kept it then that’s one person who would have lost access to the content. By stealing it from his public library he took it away from his entire community, including people who could not easily afford to spend $20 on a book but whose lives might be much improved if they could earn a GED. Since public libraries have limited funds then if the GED guide was replaced – which involves more than just buying a new copy, it also needs to be processed and the catalog record has to be updated – that took away time and money that could have been spent on other materials and services. And sometimes it will be about more expensive materials then a GED study guide (though if enough of those walk off the cost does add up). Libraries often have out-of-print materials. Replacing those (and if an item is in demand we will try to replace it) isn’t a matter of $25.00 and ten minutes of cataloging. It’s hoping the item can even be found and then hoping there is enough money in the budget to cover the costs. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/135 "2013-11-05T23:46:28Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And sometimes it will be about more expensive materials then a GED study guide (though if enough of those walk off the cost does add up). Libraries often have out-of-print materials. Replacing those (and if an item is in demand we will try to replace it) isn’t a matter of $25.00 and ten minutes of cataloging. It’s hoping the item can even be found and then hoping there is enough money in the budget to cover the costs. If a book is rare and valuable, one is not normally permitted to check it out. Regardless, THIS time, the one the person was arrested for, it was a GED study book, which would have no value if it was out of print, as it would be outdated, so we can safely say its replacement cost would not exceed its cover price. Sometimes a person steals a $50,000 ring, so we should treat the guy that steals gum from the machine by the jewelry store door exactly like the hypothetical ring thief, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/136 "2013-11-05T23:57:54Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > You should have said so. They did. In their first post in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/137 "2013-11-06T00:03:20Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > People are not gonna want to risk arrest to read a book. > > And before you say “well, just return the book and you won’t” sometimes the library themselves lose the book but blame you. My mom once returned a book, then started getting notices about her “overdue book”. She eventually found the book. Shelved in the library. Because she had returned it. What is unclear about this? TBGMom once checked a book out from the library. TBGMom later returned that book to the library. In spite of the fact that she had already returned the book to the library, TBGMom started getting overdue notices saying that the book had NOT been returned and was now overdue. TBGMom went back to the library and located the book, on a bookshelf at the library. TBGMom succeeded after the system failed. The system did not register her return and sent out untrue and inappropriate overdue notices–at the public’s expense, no less! Wasted postage, printing costs, wages for the worker that handled the false notices. TBGMom’s time was wasted, and her time has value. She may have driven to the library, wasting expensive gas, or ridden public transportation, wasting fare money, plus those fares are subsidized, so it wasted our money there too. Arrest the system for its theft, false accusations, and general incompetence, for it has robbed us all! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/138 "2013-11-06T00:22:42Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > If I were wealthy enough, I’d try to have charges brought against them; it sounds like a sweet little racket they have going, supplying a too-small return box then demanding money. I’m a librarian, but not a public librarian, and I’ve never had a job that involved dealing with fines. However, from what I’ve heard – and I hope the public librarians in this thread will correct me if I’m wrong – public libraries do not get to keep the money they collect in fines as profit, so a library would not benefit from making it difficult for people to return their books on time. The primary purpose of overdue fees and replacement fees is to discourage people from keeping books too long or losing them in the first place. I can say based on my own experience as a librarian that getting the original book back is preferable to getting the replacement fee. Ordering and processing a replacement copy involves more work for more people, and it’s not like we get paid extra for that. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/139 "2013-11-06T01:04:55Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’m a librarian, but not a public librarian, and I’ve never had a job that involved dealing with fines. However, from what I’ve heard – and I hope the public librarians in this thread will correct me if I’m wrong – public libraries do not get to keep the money they collect in fines as profit Sorry Lamia, you’re slightly off. I can’t speak for all public librarians, but I know that in my system that a certain of overdue fines are expected to be collected every year as part of our annual operating budget. So while we don’t encourage fines, the town that funds us expects us to collect a certain amount of them. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907/140 "2013-11-06T01:14:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Sorry Lamia, you’re slightly off. I can’t speak for all public librarians, but I know that in my system that a certain of overdue fines are expected to be collected every year as part of our annual operating budget. So while we don’t encourage fines, the town that funds us expects us to collect a certain amount of them. Then I guess you’d be a wee bit screwed if people started behaving more responsibly and stopped abusing their good fellow citizens by hogging the books. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrested-for-overdue-library-book/672907.md?page=8)