# Arrogant Freeloading "Information" Seeking Asshats! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115 "2009-05-12T00:39:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/121 "2009-05-12T18:44:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who the hell asks for “massage advice”? Anyone with a sore muscle. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/122 "2009-05-12T18:45:58Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > How’s your massage therapy insurance going? It’s quite comprehensive thanks. And there’s this thing of proof that someone would have to prove that you were working as legal counsel with them, but of course we both know that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/123 "2009-05-12T18:50:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > **Massage Advice: Need Answer Fast!** > > Ok, so I was rubbing my girlfriend’s lower back and I felt some popping noises. I thought this might be trouble, but she seemed to like it. Fast forward to tonight and wants me to do it again. Massage therapists, I know I’m not your client, yadda yadda, but how do I repeat this maneuver? I’m in NY if it helps. LOL, I’m in New York as well. The popping noises could be many things. It could be like the cracking of knuckles (reseating bones in the joint), or just as likely it was the release of myofascial adhesions, this is where the fascia and the muscle get stuck together, either via chemical deposits that bind them or via the tissues just growing into one another. Either one might relieve tensions. I’d generally caution you about trying to achieve the popping noise as a result, but go to down on giving her a foot massage. If you both wanted to come see me I could give you a quick lesson in a foot massage. I’m in Inwood. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/124 "2009-05-12T18:53:20Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Dumb. There’s a significant difference between law and massage (other than that law doesn’t usually give you a happy ending). You don’t know the **legal** difference between an LMT and a prostitute and _I_ am the dumb one. 😉 > [@](#): > > Lawyers pretty much, by definition, sell advice. Hence “counselor”. Doctors do the same thing (they write prescriptions, we write briefs), and I am pretty sure they don’t like to talk about your rash at a cocktail party, either. They, of course, also have to be careful about giving advice because of those pesky ethical considerations. Most Doctors I know will give you a modicum of advice, as will most lawyers I know incidentally. One thing I have noticed that lawyers have in common is a distinct lack of sense of humor regarding their professions. 😉 > [@](#): > > Furthermore, there is this whole class of people called “consultants” who do nothing but dispense advice. Those sons of bitches must be total dicks for not giving away advice for free – they don’t even have ethical rules and malpractice to worry about! Hey, as every crack dealer knows a free sample means repeat business. ;p ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/125 "2009-05-12T18:59:07Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > What an astoundingly stupid comparison!! In a board filled with posts that manage to miss the mark, this one not only flies wide of it, it manages to imperile all spectators! The imbecility of the attempt to liken massage therapy to attorney advice would be enough to have me frothing at the mouth if I wasn’t already laughing my head off at the concept someone would seriously post it! See there’s your mistake right there, you assumed that I \*seriously \*posted it. 😉 > [@](#): > > A massage therapist is someone who actually, like you know, massages people. I don’t see you getting a whole lot of clientele where you say something like, “Mr. Smith, I’ve been looking over your body, and it turns out that, if you use a #2 auto-massager with the dual head attachment for 15 min. on each side of your quads, you’ll relieve that nasty tendency to cramp up during exercise. That’ll be $150. Next, please!” Most of what people come to you for is the massage itself. Now I ask you, what if all your good friends, and people you didn’t even know, but who posted on a message board with you, kept asking you for free massages? Would you do it? Well it would depend. If I saw a thread asking for advice of course I’d jump at the thread. I like being able to help people with a little bit of knowledge when I can. You don’t have to answer a thread just because you know the subject. That’s what’s funny about this thread, it’s bitching about people who are asking for advice on an internet message board. > [@](#): > > Now, add to that suppose that if you massage them, and they don’t like the result, they can sue you for malpractice? And because large numbers of them end up unhappy with the result, you end under the threat of suit regularly. So you have to buy really expensive insurance to cover the possibility. Insurance that probably doesn’t cover a suit from one of those friends or anonymous message board posters. I do have malpractice insurance, though and yes people have been sued because someone didn’t like the massage. I am having a hard time believing that anonymous message board users have a case in a law suit. > [@](#): > > I think that, without much added reflection, you will see just how inapt, and inept, your comparison was. :smack: No, just how overblown your attempt at hyperbole was. 😉 People come on here asking for all kinds of professional/technical advice. Answer it or don’t, bitching about it is pretty silly and is gonna get you made fun of in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/126 "2009-05-12T19:01:29Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Is the preferred term nowadays release or happy ending? Also, how much should I tip? I wouldn’t know, I am not a prostitute, you’d have to ask your local prostitute. As for tipping for a _REAL_ massage, you should tip as much as you have in your wallet. 😉 Especially if you are a lawyer who likes to always have at least $ 400 cash on hand. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/127 "2009-05-12T19:08:05Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > i dunno about massage but people ask about plumbing, electricity, electronics, computers, cars, home improvements, etc all the time in the hopes of saving a penny. It seems to me fiddling with some of those things if you do not know well what you are doing is more dangerous than fiddling with court papers. Yes, no one should change a light bulb, they should leave it to trained professionals! As for getting out of a lawsuit there are lots of ways to do it. For instance for an LMT, you are allowed to make a _PROGNOSIS_ but not a _DIAGNOSIS_. This is easy to handle, “Well your wrist pain could be carpal tunnel, Do you use a computer or play an instrument or do anything that relies on a lot of wrist movements? Yes? Well then carpal tunnel is likely, but I am not a doctor so this isn’t a diagnosis. I’d recommend seeing a Doctor to make sure it’s carpal tunnel, if it is, there are things I can do to treat that.” The lawyer version, “Well, in other cases like that, this has happened, but without seeing the particulars of your case I couldn’t tell you whether or not this really applies to you. _Based on what you’ve described_ it seems applicable, but I’d need to look more deeply into it. If this is a serious issue to you, then you really need to see a lawyer professionally as the specific details will give him a clearer picture of what your case is about.” See? You don’t tell them that your advice is ‘precise’ you just keep it conversational and make sure that they know the boundaries of the relationship. There MUST be legal precedents for frivolous cocktail party legal advice lawsuits to pull from. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/128 "2009-05-12T19:10:32Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > So when you ask a tax question to a CPA at a party, they really can’t scribble down their advice to you on a cocktail napkin to cover their butt for when the IRS hauls your ass into tax court. You are asking, in a very real way, for them to expose themselves. And what if they give you a good answer, but after two martinis you misunderstand them, then go home and deduct the home office you have that in no way qualifies - then blame them. You get the exposure, none of the reward (payment), and a reduced ability to CYA. If there is no napkin then there is no evidence. How do they know that you even gave this person advice? I mean what can your advice really consist of if you don’t actually tabulate the spreadsheet values? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/129 "2009-05-12T19:15:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > As for getting out of a lawsuit there are lots of ways to do it. You do realize that you’re now attempting to give legal advice to a whole bunch of lawyers, right? Anyway, as I’ve pointed out to, gosh, 500 people in these threads now, _having a defense does not mean you won’t get sued. It just helps you win a suit. Lawsuits are fucking expensive and inconvenient whether or not you win. Ergo, the trick is not to get sued in the first place._ ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/130 "2009-05-12T19:16:26Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > See? You don’t tell them that your advice is ‘precise’ you just keep it conversational and make sure that they know the boundaries of the relationship. There MUST be legal precedents for frivolous cocktail party legal advice lawsuits to pull from. Objection – asked and answered. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/131 "2009-05-12T19:46:30Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > If there is no napkin then there is no evidence. How do they know that you even gave this person advice? I mean what can your advice really consist of if you don’t actually tabulate the spreadsheet values? Ethics violations are not matters of law requiring evidence. You are at the mercy of the CPA ethics committee to determine whether you did or did not give that advice. And the complaint will go on your record even if its decided in your favor, so too many complaints regarding you to the ethics committee, and you won’t have a CPA any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/132 "2009-05-12T19:49:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Anyway, as I’ve pointed out to, gosh, 500 people in these threads now, _having a defense does not mean you won’t get sued. It just helps you win a suit. Lawsuits are fucking expensive and inconvenient whether or not you win. Ergo, the trick is not to get sued in the first place._ That’s exactly why when someone asks whether anyone has ever actually been sued in the history of the world for something comparable, people should try to find an example of someone actually being sued for something comparable. What they’ve done instead is cited sources of people who’ve had initial consultations with lawyers with the intention of hiring them and/or court cases involving conflicts of interest/confidentiality and not involving anyone being sued for bad advice. No one has cited a single example of someone ever suing over a question asked on a message board, (especially with a disclaimer attached), in all this great country of ours. So that does not seem like something even remotely likely. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/133 "2009-05-12T19:51:12Z")
Well, my posit about the corollary to Gaudere’s Law has just born further fruit. \ **mswas** , you don’t know what you are talking about. Stop, now, before you confirm something. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/134 "2009-05-12T19:53:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Clearly there is this whole thing with \*\*Stoid \*\*that I was not aware of. I was simply responding to \*\*DSYoungEsq’s \*\* OP about people in general not asking a message board for legal advice. (Also I don’t want to imply that I was personally singling **DSYoungEsq** out as a douchebag. At least not any more or less than any other lawyer.😉 ) Where, in anything I said in MY OP, did I imply that the average person was not supposed to try to be their own attorney?? I simply said the following: don’t come to attorneys asking for them to give you for free what they charge people to provide as their business, under the guise of simply wanting some limited “information.” If that makes me a douchebag, hell, baby, fill me up and squirt away!!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/135 "2009-05-12T19:56:05Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s exactly why when someone asks whether anyone has ever actually been sued in the history of the world for something comparable, people should try to find an example of someone actually being sued for something comparable. > > What they’ve done instead is cited sources of people who’ve had initial consultations with lawyers with the intention of hiring them and/or court cases involving conflicts of interest/confidentiality and not involving anyone being sued for bad advice. No one has cited a single example of someone ever suing over a question asked on a message board, (especially with a disclaimer attached), in all this great country of ours. > > So that does not seem like something even remotely likely. Except, of course, that you are ignoring the two or three citations I’ve seen posted (sorry, I’m not following up on them because I don’t practice law any more, so it’s not particularly important to me…) in which is discussed the potential for ethics violations for precisely the conduct being discussed in this thread. Now, if you want to simply wave that away, be my guest. But when an attorney reads a well-reasoned opinion (like the one from the IBA) saying there is an issue there, they tend to act on the basis that, hey, ya know, there might well be an issue there. Funny how that works. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/136 "2009-05-12T19:59:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s exactly why when someone asks whether anyone has ever actually been sued in the history of the world for something comparable, people should try to find an example of someone actually being sued for something comparable. OR: They decline to try to find an example of something similar being done “in the history of the world,” because just because someone wants you to do that sort of exhaustive search, for free, doesn’t mean you have any obligation to do so. So really there’s no “should” about it. Just because YOU don’t think it’s “remotely likely” doesn’t put any obligation on any of us to justify concern about the issue. It’s a concern. You may not think it’s a legitmate one, but at the end of the day why should your opinion be given more weight than that of people who actually work in this field? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/137 "2009-05-12T19:59:30Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Except, of course, that you are ignoring the two or three citations I’ve seen posted None of those dealt with the likelihood of being sued. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/138 "2009-05-12T20:01:24Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > OR: They decline to try to find an example of something similar being done “in the history of the world,” because just because someone wants you to do that sort of specific and exhaustive search, for free, doesn’t mean you have any obligation to do so. So really there’s no “should” about it. Well nobody is forced to do anything. But the argument that “I’m afraid I might get sued” is unconvincing if actually getting sued is so rare that no one can come up with a single instance. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/139 "2009-05-12T20:01:33Z")
Clearly the solution is to give a bunch of half-assed advice at cocktail parties and on messageboards and attract a series of lawsuits so that we can develop a solid body of case law on the consequences. I’m sure there are plenty of brave attorneys here who will bite the bullet in order to definitively give us the straight dope. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115/140 "2009-05-12T20:01:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > None of those dealt with the likelihood of being sued. Pray tell, F-P, what do you understood those cases to have dealt with? What was the remedy being sought? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-freeloading-information-seeking-asshats/496115.md?page=8)