# Arrogant Hobbyist mentality- where does it come from? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 3, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445 "2014-02-03T19:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/21 "2014-02-04T15:05:38Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Ha, I used to drive guys in my homebrewing club crazy when they asked for a recipe. I usually said something like “Umm, I can get you close.” > > Weirdly I was discussing something like this with my wife just the other night. People take what they know and adapt their hobbies around them. I helped a good friend who is a Chemical Engineer get into homebrewing and when he built his rig it was full of pumps and sensors and lights and switches and even had a damned control panel! But I kept my mouth shut, because that was what made him comfortable. > > My rig is a bunch of square steel tubing held together by birdshit welds and hose clamps. It horrifies my engineer friend, but he knows I can make good beer on it, so he holds his tongue. The problem **bump** describes is when people _insist_ that you need a control panel to make beer. My son does the homebrewing and I build all his equipment. I turned an old freezer into a kegerator, I found an old water cooler and use it to transfer hot or cold into a variety of coils depending on where I need it. I welded up his brewer tree from scrap iron. A couple of weeks ago he took 1st,2nd, 3rd out of about 50 beers. I find myself wanting to get more involved in it. Great hobby. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/22 "2014-02-04T15:15:56Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > My rig is a bunch of square steel tubing held together by birdshit welds and hose clamps. It horrifies my engineer friend, but he knows I can make good beer on it, so he holds his tongue. The problem **bump** describes is when people _insist_ that you need a control panel to make beer. Ha! I have a 50 qt aluminum tamale pot ($40 at the local Hispanic grocery) with a spigot that I use for a boiler. I also use a all copper/stainless plate chiller that I got from a biodiesel site for $60, and put garden hose fittings on it. People get all pissy (exactly what I was talking about in the OP) about aluminum pots, but I’ve never had an issue with it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/23 "2014-02-04T15:21:13Z")
One of my favorite things about homebrewing is the sort of low-cash improvisation that you see- I get a huge kick out of making it work with hardware store stuff and repurposing other items for brewing. I’m actually trying to figure out a way to rig my home-built PID controller (originally built for my Bradley smoker) into my brewing rig, but I think that may need a pump and some sort of electric heating element. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/24 "2014-02-04T15:51:11Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > I was a professional brewer for 5 years at a large Midwestern regional brewery and I worked a _lot_ of beer festivals and so talked to a lot of home brewers. Possibly also because you do it professionally? I get that sometimes with people into amateur theatre. They get really obnoxious about what they do, as if they are trying to compete with me or something. 😕 I remember this one guy, a friend of a friend, who was just really aggressive about how he could’ve become a professional but didn’t. He pretty much ended up ridiculing my life. I didn’t even say anything, just let him run on and on… They also often get very fanatical about theatrical superstitions, or really obscure details in plays or nutty traditions. Now that I’m sort of looking at a different path myself people often suggest that I could always do am dram. I just nod, but truthfully: never, not in a million years. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/25 "2014-02-04T16:42:56Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > Possibly also because you do it professionally? I get that sometimes with people into amateur theatre. They get really obnoxious about what they do, as if they are trying to compete with me or something. 😕 There was definitely some of that. I often got suggestions on how to improve our beers, which I always took seriously (to their faces, anyway). [QUOTE=bump] People get all pissy (exactly what I was talking about in the OP) about aluminum pots, but I’ve never had an issue with it. [/quote] Dear god, are people still arguing over that? I’m so glad I abandoned all homebrewing fora 4 years ago or so. What are they getting pissy about, that you’ll get Alzheimer’s or that you’ll scorch your beer and never be able to make American Light Lager? Because I remember both of those and neither is true. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/26 "2014-02-04T17:14:56Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > [Sayre’s Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_law) states: “In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake.” > > I think that covers most hobbies. The way I heard it (about academia, but applies to so much else): the politics are so vicious because the stakes are so low. In Dungeons and Dragons groups, Editions Wars is the big thing. Lots of folks feel they need to choose a certain specific version of the game and hold it up as a sacred text, against which all other versions are heresy. It makes for extremely boring conversations. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/27 "2014-02-04T19:10:09Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > What are they getting pissy about, that you’ll get Alzheimer’s or that you’ll scorch your beer and never be able to make American Light Lager? Because I remember both of those and neither is true. That’s pretty much it- I think the argument has moved more to whether or not the aluminum oxide layer is enough to protect your beer (and brain) from the dreaded aluminum or not. There’s also the extract / partial mash / all-grain feud; some a-holes claim you can’t make good beer without going all-grain. This is of course patently untrue for the vast majority of styles, because unless you’re really good at it, the likelihood of making funky beer is a lot higher with all-grain if only because of the greater complexity. There’s also the dry vs. liquid yeast crowd, and the starter-size crowd. I made a light lager using Briess pilsen extract, about 1/2 lb of carapils, and 1/2 lb of crystal 10, roughly 20 ibu of Sterling hops and dried 34/70 yeast fermented at 48 degrees, and aged at about 35, and it was GOOD. Good enough to where my Bud Light/Coors Light drinking friends wanted to learn how to homebrew to make beer like it. Yet somehow, I broke several commandments- aluminum pot, extract, dried yeast, etc… It should have been godawful swill, according to the enthusiast wisdom, but it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/28 "2014-02-04T19:28:29Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I guess there’s arcana with every hobby and interest. Sheesh, take a peek at the guitar thread. Indeed. I have seen at least one vehement claim that the bridge pieces on a Telecaster make the tone \*so \*much better if they’re brass instead of nickel. Another over-the-top hobby is audiophilia. Ask the people who spend [hundreds](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20023374-47.html)on a set of wires. Or [thousands](http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/pricing/). Imagine spending more on 1.5m of cable than what my car is worth. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/29 "2014-02-04T19:38:46Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > [Sayre’s Law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_law) states: “In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake.” > > I think that covers most hobbies. And some careers. It’s an old joke that academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so small. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/30 "2014-02-04T19:56:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > There’s also the extract / partial mash / all-grain feud; some a-holes claim you can’t make good beer without going all-grain. This is of course patently untrue for the vast majority of styles, because unless you’re really good at it, the likelihood of making funky beer is a lot higher with all-grain if only because of the greater complexity. ^ Snipped from larger post. Here’s the thing, that _was_ true,once upon a time, sort of. When I started homebrewing your choices for extract were light, medium, or dark, and that was if you were lucky. Much of the extract available was canned syrup and the beers made with it were not really memorable in any good way. So all-grain was the only way to make a real Pilsener or Stout or what have you. Now, I can go to the LHBS and pick up Marris Otter extract, or wheat DME, etc. Even though I have an all-grain rig, I usually make an extract batch while I’m mashing and lautering the grain and it’s hard to tell the difference anymore. Ending this hijack, it goes back to people braying the stuff they were told 10 years ago, like I said in my first post. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/31 "2014-02-04T20:04:22Z")
The audio/hifi filed is absolutely notorious for this, and there are companies who pander very expensively to this crowd with rather expensive cables of one type or another, or extremely expensive capacitors for speaker crossover networks. Few, if any at all will actually pick up differences in double blind tests, and often the differences in sound are described in terms that would probably be better used in a recipe book, none of them can subjectively discern or describe the differences, and none can actually work out how to rank subjectively the real merits of one technical approach vs some other technical approach - at least not on a technical manner. Many of these types will argue that the subtle differences cannot be picked up and measured by instruments, or will argue some sort of level of technical limitation. The reality is that if instruments that can detect differences of less than 1 part in 100 million will easily outperform the human ear, and almost always the hifi snobs resort to some technical limitation is utterly irrelevant because it only begins to have the slightest effect well outside the range of human hearing, by factors of around a few million. The problem with hifi is simple, its very complex and takes many years of working in the field, and it also takes a lot of education - so the hifi buff resorts to the shortcut, but you cannot shortcut the knowledge that takes an entire career to acquire. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/32 "2014-02-04T20:47:42Z")
In gardening, there are the people who have _artistic training_, and are so much more expert in _design principles_ and _palette_\*, which makes them vastly superior to the common herd who just go out and have fun planting things. \*apparently all these artistic sensibilities were insufficient to allow them to make even a half-assed living doing painting or sculpture, so some of them gravitate to garden design. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/33 "2014-02-04T20:57:14Z")
My stuff is better than your stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/34 "2014-02-04T21:13:30Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > It’s an old joke that academic politics are so vicious because the stakes are so small. I think that the more you obsess on a small field, the more important it seems to you. Instead of gaining perspective, you’re losing it. [Of course, there’s an xkcd for this phenomenon](http://xkcd.com/915/). I don’t know if the amount a person cares about a topic has an inverse relationship to its importance - lots of people care about environmentalism, donating food to starving African nations, etc. - it’s more that when the matters are so petty, the caring seems out of place and we notice it. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/35 "2014-02-04T22:04:53Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > My little train set gives me complete control over a universe and I feel pretty damn good about it. What, a model railroader who didn’t mention the definite old-school term for such hobbyist nitpicking mentality? [“Rivet Counter”](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rivet_counter) I believe Rivet Counter has been used in model railroading since at least the 1950s, if not before… ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/36 "2014-02-04T22:24:30Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > What, a model railroader who didn’t mention the definite old-school term for such hobbyist nitpicking mentality? > [“Rivet Counter”](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rivet_counter) > I believe Rivet Counter has been used in model railroading since at least the 1950s, if not before… My neighbor when I wasa kid, about 1957 maybe had a little house built for his trains. Maybe 400 sg ft. At night after work he would wear his engineer suit and hit the railroad. I loved watching him. I bet he was a rivet counter. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/37 "2014-02-04T22:47:29Z")
One of the oddest manifestations of this I’ve seen was on a flight simulator forum focused on a particular WW1 flight sim. Occasionally a new player would post asking what ‘realism’ settings others used and would give them the best game (this was offline only - the sim didn’t have an online mode). Most posts would be along the lines of “x,y and z are the basics - other than that, just set it up in a way that gives you the most enjoyment.” One guy would occasionally show up and start insulting anyone who didn’t play with all the ‘realism’ setting turned up to maximum difficulty, use head-tracking hardwear to look around and play the campaign with a “Dead-is-dead” attitude (that is if, you’re shot down & killed in-game you have to consider that character dead and start over rather than just have another go at the mission). His opinion was that if you didn’t play the game his way you were short-changing yourself, undermining your masculinity and disrespecting the real pilots who flew in WW1 :rolleyes:. The way this guy typed you could picture him starting to froth at the mouth and shout at his screen as he got near the end of his rant. He eventually got himself banned for it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/38 "2014-02-05T02:04:43Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I guess there’s arcana with every hobby and interest. Sheesh, take a peek at the guitar thread. Hey, I resemble that remark. 😉 I enjoy the geekery, but try to avoid the arrogance. It’s fun to compare notes, not “win” some silly online discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/39 "2014-02-05T03:01:27Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > One guy would occasionally show up and start insulting anyone who didn’t play with all the ‘realism’ setting turned up to maximum difficulty, use head-tracking hardwear to look around and play the campaign with a “Dead-is-dead” attitude (that is if, you’re shot down & killed in-game you have to consider that character dead and start over rather than just have another go at the mission). I started playing Wizardry 8, a 12-year-old game, recently. Combat can drag like a sonofabitch sometimes, so I went looking online for a fix, and sure enough I found an old thread where someone offered a simple file that greatly sped up combat, simply by speeding up certain combat animations. The dude you described came in and started mocking anyone who used this mod as part of the “have it now generation” and unwilling to wait for anything and unable to appreciate the finer pleasures in life and blah blah blah. It was kind of funny. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445/40 "2014-02-05T04:38:46Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > My stuff is better than your stuff. My theory is that nobody really cares about how good their stuff is on any absolute scale. They just want it to be better than \*your \*stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arrogant-hobbyist-mentality-where-does-it-come-from/680445.md?page=3)