# Arsenal, You Effing Bastards! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663 "2003-05-02T17:03:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/1 "2003-05-02T17:03:39Z")
I belong to a not-so-exclusive club known as “Anybody but Man U” who believe in the common cause that ‘Dear Lord, please let anyone but Manchester United win the Premiership…again!’. And things looked great this year, Arsenal was playing great football, had a prety comfortable lead, even eliminated Man U from the FA Cup and all was going to be right with the world. But fucking hell no way that could happen. Arsenal has squandered that lead to the point where Man U is in firm control of the top of the table and only need win out to win their eigth freaking title. Arse Wenger’s boys though were fine unitl they managed to snatch a draw out of the jaws of victory from a Bolton team that is near the bottom of the Premier league. Fuck! They had a 2-0 lead with 30 minutes to go. Are you kidding me. Goat felching-hellcakes! How the living hell does that happen when the whole effing Preimiere League is on the line!?!?!?! I would’ve posted this last weekend, but I had calmed down, but looking ahead to this wekend’s games and the rest of the schedule just got me all riled up again. Consider me a huge fan of Charlton Athletic this weeked. Whooo! Charlton!! ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/2 "2003-05-02T17:15:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gangster Octopus \* > **…the rest of the schedule…** Some of us could take that personally y’know. Who do you really support? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/3 "2003-05-02T17:38:05Z")
Sorry Everton, no offense meant, although I see why some could could be taken. I like Everton, I am a Yank so I get only selected games, but I make sure to try and catch Everton, esp. with Wayne Rooney playing the way he has. Honestly, I don’t have a strong affiliation with any team, just against Man U. If forced to choose I would likely go with Arsenal, partly because they are the main challengers to United’s supremecy and also, I think from readin _Fever Pitch_. Plus my good friend is a North Londoner, so that is where I find myself when I visit. I was liking Newcastle this year, impressed with how they managed to keep themselves up there with the big boys. I also like to root for the team’s that most recently got promoted. I’m all over the map, but I am consistent in my “Anybody but Man U” feelings. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/4 "2003-05-02T18:02:32Z")
Well, you’ll have upset the 'Spurs fans but plenty more here will agree with your sentiments. This being Friday night of a Bank Holiday weekend plenty of people will be in the pub (I’m heading off myself shortly) so you might have to wait a while for the full flow of replies. Needless to say, I agree that if Arsenal don’t win it this year they have nobody to blame but themselves. They should have won at Aston Villa a few weeks back too, but the Bolton game was suicidal. ---
**Author:** ![cabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c67d28/32.png) [@cabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/5 "2003-05-02T18:11:57Z")
Why not Man U? 🙂 Is it actual hatred of the club, or just a desire to see an underdog up there for a change? Don’t be pissed, but I’d love to see Man U take it, Becks NOT go to Real Madrid, and Fergie and Becks keep their soap-opera-jerry-springer-fight-of-the-week-but-we-win-titles relationship going. That’s just me though. ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/6 "2003-05-02T18:47:42Z")
Stateside Arsenal fan here. I’m definitely cheesed off at the Gunners’ performance this spring. I, too, am cheering for Charlton this weekend and for Everton next weekend. I must say, I think Everton played very well this year and deserve all good fortune. So take that and stuff it Soccer Spice’s arse in 2 weeks. Please, Rooney, give us the miracle! Also, ManUre blows donkey dicks. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/7 "2003-05-02T18:48:23Z")
Well, I hope Man U win it. So there 😛 But, as a Celtic Park season-ticket holder, I certainly understand the frustration of watching a team you want to win the title throwing their lead away. ---
**Author:** ![Barks\_dog\_food](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@Barks\_dog\_food](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barks_dog_food)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/8 "2003-05-02T21:50:57Z")
Bolton weren’t any good before they injured 3 Arsenal players, it’s not a coincidense. That the ref didn’t see any of them wasn’t a coincidense, having Andy D’Urso as ref is like having Alex Fergurson, at least for Arsenal. But Arsenal should have won the Premiership anyway and have nobody but themselves to blame. Come on Everton! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/9 "2003-05-02T21:55:45Z")
This is some kind of Euro-Soccer rant, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Barks\_dog\_food](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@Barks\_dog\_food](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barks_dog_food)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/10 "2003-05-02T23:49:22Z")
And UEFA gives Vieira a 5 000 Swiss Franc fine for criticising them for not doing enough about racism. [http://www.football365.com/All\_News/Breaking\_News/story\_66254.shtml](http://www.football365.com/All_News/Breaking_News/story_66254.shtml) Which is half of that Fergurson got for saying UEFA was corrupt.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DJScherr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@DJScherr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJScherr)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/11 "2003-05-03T00:28:54Z")
Okay first things first, yes I am a United fan. Second, I DO think that Ferguson got off lightly for his comments about UEFA draw fixing, he did retract it though (not saying it was right) but maybe thats why they gave him a break. Finally, if Arsenal lose it it is their own damn fault. They let United draw at Highbury, if they would have beaten United there, they might have an easy coast to the title. Either way, it’s gonna be a hell of a finish to the season and regardless of who wins they deserve it. Finally since United have Charlton at home tomorrow, and if they win Arsenal has to take full points from the remaining 3 games just to have a chance of winning, I’ll be willing to say there’ll be a hell of a party in Manchester this weekend. And if you’re cheering for Arsenal, least they have the FA Cup to look forward to. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/12 "2003-05-03T00:58:42Z")
Now I understand how our overseas friends feel when we Americans start carrying on about the Vikings, the Bears and the Packers. It’s a drag, ain’t it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/13 "2003-05-03T05:59:44Z")
Another Stateside Gooner here. It’s turning out to be a disappointing season, which is sad since it all started off so promising. Yes, we still have the FA cup to play for, and I’ll be happy to see us win that. But we went out of the Champions League at the group stage _again_, and now we’ve probably thrown it all away by drawing to Bolton. And just to top it off, it’s Man U that’s poised to take the league title… if it had been Newcastle, i just might have been able to deal with it, but Man U, again?? I blame this situation on three factors: 1.) Lack of a killer instinct. Arsenal’s style of football is beautiful to watch, but how many times have we let goal chances go wanting? We’ll score one or two goals, and then just ride out the rest of the match. And often it seems when we concede a goal, we just never seem to get back into the game. Although I laughed to see Man U go out of the Champions League, the fight they gave Real Madrid was impressive. I have the bad feeling that if Arsenal had been in Man U’s place that night, we would have just given up after Ronaldo’s first goal. And certainly after his second. But Man U had the cheek to go on to score four goals, coming within two goals of winning the tie. 1. Defensive problems–especially with the centre-backs. Keown and Campbell can be solid, but Keown’s getting on in the years, and when one of them gets injured or suspended (as Campbell is right now–good timing, Sol), we don’t have any reliable replacements. Pascal Cygan? Luzhny?? _Stepanovs_??? I might add here that we’re still adjusting to the absence of Tony Adams, who really was Mr. Arsenal. 2. The stupid new crest. Actually, i’m tempted to eschew the first two excuses and just go with this one. Why go fucking around with a good traditional crest and changing it into that load of bollocks? I know the whole copyright problems with the old crest, but still… ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/14 "2003-05-03T12:57:58Z")
Is that the one with the round ball??? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/15 "2003-05-03T22:31:34Z")
Picture the scene – you wander by accident into the _wrong public toilet_. What do you do? Back out quietly and find the right one? Or hammer on all the cubicle doors calling out to make sure everyone knows what a doofus you’ve been? I think **Scylla** , **Spavined Gelding** and **TheLoadedDog** have told us what they do (and it doesn’t get any less boring with repetition). ```auto Back to the OP, I wish I could offer you more hope of what my lads will do next Sunday, but the sad fact is we’ve been running on empty for a few weeks now. We haven’t been scoring freely this season and have problems concentrating at the back just now; brought on by battle fatigue IMO. As for today’s game, what was I saying about suicide? All I can guarantee is that we will try our hardest to beat United, not least because we need the points ourselves. We were very unlucky to lose 3-0 at Old Trafford in October – the first goal came on 86 minutes, and we could easily have been at least two up before they scored. We’ve made Arsenal struggle as well, of course, but although there’s no opposition left that they *shouldn’t* beat, you could have said that about Bolton, and Leeds are desperate for points too, much as they’d hate to help Man U. United are in excellent form, and I’ve a feeling it’s going to take more that a little more of Rooney’s magic to stop them. I haven’t been able to get a ticket, btw, so if you know anyone with a spare let me know ;). ``` ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/16 "2003-05-03T22:54:09Z")
To prevent further misunderstandings [here is a linked story](http://soccer.com/channels/xml_news.php?story_id=6001753) on why the ABMU fans are frustrated. [sub] > [@](#): > > Hat trick deals Charlton Ruud awakening > > Manchester, England (Sports Network) - Manchester United are just one win or an Arsenal stumble away from the Premiership title after their 4-1 win over Charlton Athletic on Saturday. In front of a record crowd at Old Trafford, striker Ruud van Nistelrooy powered the Red Devils with a hat trick to boost their lead over Arsenal to eight points. > > Arsenal now must win on Sunday at home against Leeds United to keep the title race alive, plus on Wednesday against Southampton. A loss or draw in either match, and United clinches the title. If the Gunners can win both, the title will be decided next Sunday at Goodison Park, where Manchester United plays Everton while at the same time Arsenal travel to Sunderland. If United win, the title is theirs. [/sub] But for Arsenal fans the British stiff upper lip is ever in evidence on the [Arsenal Message Board](http://195.8.171.13/cgi-bin/webbbs_config.pl?read=291262) > [@](#): > > [sub] I can’t agree with you. > > _I’m sure the players will feel very disappointed about what has happened as they should do. They will know that now in all but name, they have given away the title this year through what appears to be a lack of desire after the Champs League exit. I’m not taking anything away from ManU, they again showed today that they deserve it, but our lads will know that it probably should have been closer than it is now. Sure we still have two games in hand and if we win them its all down to the last game of the season but its a huge if. The pressure on our boys now will be immense._ > > Absolutely . The players should feel disappointed and they’ll know that we lost it rather than manyoo winning it - if they didn’t feel that way I wouldn’t want them wearing the shirt. However, there’s a difference between them and us - they’re paid to win things, we pay to watch them. At the end of the day, only one team can win the prem - sometimes it will be us and sometimes it won’t and, in the event that we don’t win it, we can’t ask for any better entertainment than we got this season, IMO. > > \*I think there is nothing wrong with the fans wanting and expecting some silverware this year when you look at how the season has gone. I’m sure most Gooners are very disappointed, even the non plastic ones. \* > > Nothing wrong with wanting silverware, but we shouldn’t expect it - isn’t the basis of most people’s criticism of plastic manyoo fans the fact that they just expect to win every year. Given the way the season’s gone we’ve got every right to be disappointed, but I’m just trying to point out that it isn’t all doom and gloom [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/17 "2003-05-04T02:08:31Z")
**Everton** –WTH happened at Fulham? Trying to follow Arsenal’s model by scoring disastrous own-goals? 😉 I’m still pinning my hopes on your boys doing the job against United next week. I would love it if Kevin Campbell got the winning goal. Even a draw would be fine, so long as Arsenal can get the goal difference. I’m going to be very nervous this week, starting tomorrow–Leeds always seems to be a problem for us… Anything can happen yet–nobody thought we could do it '89 against Liverpool. So hope springs eternal, even though i’m getting myself psychologically prepared for the real probability of losing the title to Man U. At least, we’re still better than Spurs (who lost 5-1 to Middlesborough) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/18 "2003-05-04T13:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skopo \* > **Everton** –WTH happened at Fulham? Trying to follow Arsenal’s model by scoring disastrous own-goals? 😉 > > I’m still pinning my hopes on your boys doing the job against United next week. I would love it if Kevin Campbell got the winning goal. Even a draw would be fine, so long as Arsenal can get the goal difference. I’m going to be very nervous this week, starting tomorrow–Leeds always seems to be a problem for us… > > Anything can happen yet–nobody thought we could do it '89 against Liverpool. So hope springs eternal, even though i’m getting myself psychologically prepared for the real probability of losing the title to Man U. > > At least, we’re still better than Spurs (who lost 5-1 to Middlesborough) 😃 Yeah, like I said, we committed suicide yesterday. Kev is an Arsenal fan, so he’ll be doing everything he can to score next Sunday. If Arsenal fans among you are looking for a precedent (I’m sure you know this already **Skopo** ), you may recall that the closest ever margin of victory for any team to win the English Football League was indeed Arsenal in that 1988/89 season, when they finished level with Liverpool on points and level on goal difference, the championship going to the Gunners because they’d scored six more goals than the Reds. So far in the Premiership era, i.e. post 1993, the title has been decided by one point on three occasions. Painful as it may be to admit, the simple fact is that United deserve to be champions this year. Their [recent form](http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/fmgraph.html) has been outstanding, and not only have they won games they’ve won them by big enough margins to overturn Arsenal’s goals advantage too. Having said that, if Arsenal do manage to win their remaining three matches and Man U don’t beat Everton, then Arsenal ought to make it if only by the slimmest of margin of goals scored. They have a four-goal deficit to make up and have already scored one more than United. There’s currently an hour and a half to kick off in the Arsenal vs Leeds game. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/19 "2003-05-04T17:13:46Z")
Final score Arsenal **2-3** Leeds United. Manchester United are champions, and whatever happens next week is all academic. [Here’s an online report](http://live.football365.com/eng_prem/w38/14705/index.shtml) if you can bear to read it. \ **ruadh** : you mustn’t know whether to laugh or cry about the result from Dundee today. I suppose it opens the door a crack, but to get two minutes away from Rangers losing is very frustrating.\ ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663/20 "2003-05-04T18:03:04Z")
Well, I am thoroughly disgusted at Arsenal’s play the last month or so. And no doubt Man U deserves the top spot. At least there is a bit of excitement in the relegation battle between Bolton and West Ham. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsenal-you-effing-bastards/172663.md?page=2)