# Arsonists- May They Rot In Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898 "2009-02-08T05:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mudkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@mudkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/21 "2009-02-08T12:14:55Z")
There was a letter in _The Age_ today saying that arsonists in these circumstances should be considered as and tried as terrorists. Not sure I’d go that far, but imo arson somewhere like rural Australia, where the consequences can be so devastating, should be treated more seriously than a kid setting fire to his local school in the UK, for example. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/22 "2009-02-08T12:25:57Z")
I came down the Hume to Melbourne early this morning through the hideous smoke (visibility 100 metres at times) but was surprised that it was worse in the north, then seemed to clear around a parallel line to Kinglake etc. We could see little trains of smoke in areas of the ranges, but nothing too major, and I breathed a sigh of relief that perhaps the worst was over. I’ve been out of media contact all day until tonight…and now I feel like being sick. What a horror. To all those who are hurting, I’m sorry. May all of those who perpetrated these abhorent crimes know the pain of those who are suffering now. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/23 "2009-02-08T12:27:07Z")
How often do these people get caught? My impression is that on days like the last few, fires start very easily and unless someone is caught red-handed you’d wonder how you’d ever prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/24 "2009-02-08T12:29:50Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > If these jerks are caught, what is done with them, what kind of charges? Necklacing. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/25 "2009-02-08T12:44:41Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > How often do these people get caught? My impression is that on days like the last few, fires start very easily and unless someone is caught red-handed you’d wonder how you’d ever prove it. The Australian Institute of Criminology has a long running [Bushfire Arson Bulletin.](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/) It doesn’t make cheery reading. My brother is an expert in the field and he makes it sound depressingly unlikely that anyone will be caught after the event. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/26 "2009-02-08T13:25:44Z")
> [@mudkicker](#): > > There was a letter in _The Age_ today saying that arsonists in these circumstances should be considered as and tried as terrorists. Not sure I’d go that far, but imo arson somewhere like rural Australia, where the consequences can be so devastating, should be treated more seriously than a kid setting fire to his local school in the UK, for example. Thousands of people left homeless, dozens dead, tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars in damage, two towns completely destroyed… terrorists would have to call the mission a success if they managed to achieve what our grubby little firebugs have done to this state in the last two weeks. I doubt they’ll ever be caught unless someone happens upon them lighting a fire (and proving they lit the other fires too would be difficult), but if they are then they need to be charged with 84 (and counting) murders, and I’d support terrorism charges against them. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/27 "2009-02-08T13:37:39Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > Thousands of people left homeless, dozens dead, tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars in damage, two towns completely destroyed… terrorists would have to call the mission a success if they managed to achieve what our grubby little firebugs have done to this state in the last two weeks. I doubt they’ll ever be caught unless someone happens upon them lighting a fire (and proving they lit the other fires too would be difficult), but if they are then they need to be charged with 84 (and counting) murders, and I’d support terrorism charges against them. Well put **Cazzle.** And added that, like terrorism, the victims never know where or when the next ‘strike’ will be and the _fear_ that engenders…it sounds like a classic description of terrorism to me, regardless of whether it is politically or religiously motivated or not. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/28 "2009-02-08T14:12:39Z")
I wonder if the United States can offer any sort of help. Australia is a big country and has lots of resources. Still I would like to know the US was doing something to pitch in. Horrid. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/29 "2009-02-08T14:25:37Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > I wonder if the United States can offer any sort of help. Australia is a big country and has lots of resources. Still I would like to know the US was doing something to pitch in. > > Horrid. I don’t think Australia is looking for financial or other assistance from anyone actually. It’s more about coming to terms with the sheer horror that has occurred and how to help our communities deal with that and start rebuilding…which of course they will. Aussies are incredibly resilient bastards at the end of the day. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/30 "2009-02-08T14:30:46Z")
Calling it terrorism is stupid. These people are sick crazy bastards, but they were not creating fear and damage _to further some end_. It’s foolish to imagine that harsh punishment will be a deterrent here, since what they seek to gain is weird, unclear or irrational and offenders’ accounting for expected punishments are unlikely to sensible. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/31 "2009-02-08T14:39:27Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > I wonder if the United States can offer any sort of help. Australia is a big country and has lots of resources. Still I would like to know the US was doing something to pitch in. Historically, both the US and Australia have offered mutual fire-fighting aid to each other for brushfires. However, between the time and cost of transporting personnel and equipment, and differences in procedures between the two groups of firefighters, such help may be limited in effectiveness. Nonetheless, I’d be surprised if assistance was not offered. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/32 "2009-02-08T14:44:27Z")
> [@hawthorne](#): > > Calling it terrorism is stupid. These people are sick crazy bastards, but they were not creating fear and damage _to further some end_. > > It’s foolish to imagine that harsh punishment will be a deterrent here, since what they seek to gain is weird, unclear or irrational and offenders’ accounting for expected punishments are unlikely to sensible. And since when have ‘harsh punishments’ been any sort of a deterrent for conventional terrorists anyway? Doesn’t mean that equating willful arson with terrorism is in any way short of the mark. Apart from the ‘ends’, how are the means different? I don’t necessarily agree either that people who start fires on Total Fire Ban days are always **sick crazy bastards**. Sure, they \*are \*psychos in that the vast majority of us wouldn’t THINK to even stub out a cigaratte on the ground on days like yesterday…but as has been noted, many arsonists are otherwise normal and functional people (many of who pass psych assessments and become full members of the CFA btw). ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/33 "2009-02-08T14:52:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Historically, both the US and Australia have offered mutual fire-fighting aid to each other for brushfires. However, between the time and cost of transporting personnel and equipment, and differences in procedures between the two groups of firefighters, such help may be limited in effectiveness. Nonetheless, I’d be surprised if assistance was not offered. According to the CFA website (below), the fires that did the most damage are now under control. At this time we are not facing any ‘wildfires’ that would require international assistance, but of course it’s always appreciated when we DO need it. ["]URL=http://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/incidents/incident\_summary.htm ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/34 "2009-02-08T15:04:07Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > And since when have ‘harsh punishments’ been any sort of a deterrent for conventional terrorists anyway? Fair point. > [@](#): > > Apart from the ‘ends’, how are the means different? What I was saying was that for a terrorist, there are ends (crazy, justified or not), but for a firebug, there’s just a fire - they’re not trying, even in a crazy way to achieve some “great” political, religious or social end. But yeah, the means are the same. But so’s lightening’s. Anywhoo, sit tight, old bean. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/35 "2009-02-08T15:17:06Z")
This is overwhelming. A whole town lost is one of the saddest things I can imagine. … ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/36 "2009-02-08T15:24:51Z")
Unbelievable. Horrifying. Necklacing as a punishment – yeh, sounds about right. May I ask our Ozzie members: Are there livestock at risk and being trapped and burned too? Cattle, sheep, horses? ---
**Author:** ![Dottygumdrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Dottygumdrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dottygumdrop)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/37 "2009-02-08T15:34:13Z")
This [picture gallery](http://www.news.com.au/gallery/0,22010,5037339-5006020,00.html) may give you an idea of the extent of the fires and damage. 96 dead and counting. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/38 "2009-02-08T15:38:26Z")
An serial arsonist whose fired killed 5 firefighters in SoCal during the '06 fire season is on trial for murder, IIRC. Yes, it’s [here](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/inland/la-me-oyler-trial23-2009jan23,0,3826469.story). He could face the death penalty. His attorney is trying to say that the fire was actually started _by a firefighter_, rather than his client. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/39 "2009-02-08T15:39:13Z")
> [@Dottygumdrop](#): > > This [picture gallery](http://www.news.com.au/gallery/0,22010,5037339-5006020,00.html) may give you an idea of the extent of the fires and damage. 96 dead and counting. ☹ My God. I got to number two, and it was a vision of Hell approaching, inexorable, merciless, all-devouring. My God. I’m afraid to look further. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/40 "2009-02-08T16:31:55Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I don’t think Australia is looking for financial or other assistance from anyone actually. It’s more about coming to terms with the sheer horror that has occurred and how to help our communities deal with that and start rebuilding…which of course they will. Aussies are incredibly resilient bastards at the end of the day. I’m gonna toss a donation to the [Australian Red Cross](http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/services_emergencyservices_victorian-bushfires-appeal-2009.htm) anyway, and encourage anyone who can to do so as well. What a horrible thing… Are all of our Australian Dopers accounted for? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898.md?page=3)