# Arsonists- May They Rot In Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898 "2009-02-08T05:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/81 "2009-02-09T11:57:29Z")
You should be able to make a submission, \*\*kambuckta \*\*. There will be a web page up when the terms of reference are announced. FWIW, I think there are competing concerns in the media coverage issue, even amongst victims. Yes, some of the reporting has been exploitative, but some of the victims really want their grief to be heard and felt. Maybe the Royal Commission will find otherwise, but my guess is that the go early or stay and implement your fire plan is the right policy - it’s just that some days there’s nothing you can do. That leaves pretty unpalatable things like compulsory evacuations based on expected weather conditions alone and planning schemes that turn country towns into razed zones as the only real options other than just running the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/82 "2009-02-09T12:31:24Z")
Are arsonists really to blame for all of this? I had the impression that fires like these easily could be started by natural means. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/83 "2009-02-09T12:51:41Z")
I’m confused about the motivation. Does Australia have a history of arsonists like this? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/84 "2009-02-09T12:54:49Z")
Now 130 confirmed dead. ---
**Author:** ![mudkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@mudkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/85 "2009-02-09T13:15:32Z")
I know it won’t reduce the death toll, but I hope the fires do turn out to be accidental. The idea that someone could set them deliberately, especially in Australia where the consequences are so well known and so potentially devastating, is almost as upsetting as the stories coming out of this. I’m in Victoria now and will give what I can to the fund - not much though - does anyone know if any volunteers are needed? I’m not an expert or firefighter obviously, but even helping out at temporary shelters…? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/86 "2009-02-09T15:50:05Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Are arsonists really to blame for all of this? I had the impression that fires like these easily could be started by natural means. There’s no doubt: the Churchill fire was deliberately lit. Some of the burnt out areas have been taped off and are being treated as a crime scene. The fire that destroyed Kinglake and Marysville at this stage seems to have started naturally according to the CFA guy I was talking to tonight. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/87 "2009-02-09T16:40:46Z")
This is so horrid that I’m at a loss for words. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/88 "2009-02-09T16:57:23Z")
I’m just appalled that anyone could be thinking of lighting more fires in the conditions currently prevalent down there. My heart goes out to all those who have taken losses during the,and more to the rescue workers who are having to sift through the debris. > [@EJsGirl](#): > > An serial arsonist whose fired killed 5 firefighters in SoCal during the '06 fire season is on trial for murder, IIRC. > > Yes, it’s [here](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/inland/la-me-oyler-trial23-2009jan23,0,3826469.story). He could face the death penalty. His attorney is trying to say that the fire was actually started _by a firefighter_, rather than his client. > > :mad: The sad thing is, without wanting to comment on the validity of _this_ claim, the accusation that firefighters might engage in arson is pretty believable. A lot of people get into firefighting for reasons similar to one of the motivations for arsonists: a fascination with fire. Then there can those firefighters who see arson as a way to increase a public perception of a need for their services. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/89 "2009-02-09T17:07:58Z")
Over 170 people dead, probably still going to rise. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![boaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9a140/32.png) [@boaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boaz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/90 "2009-02-09T18:53:06Z")
From the coverage given in Ireland; this situation looks utterly apalling, my heart truly goes out to all of those affected, in any way by this tragedy. I will not comment further on my feelings toward anyone who would conceive to carry out such grotesque and cowardly acts, and hope against all certainty that none were actually started maliciously. I also agree with comments made; that the mercinary way some of the media are interviewing people who are medically ‘in a state of shock’, this is particularly callous. I Arrive into Melbourne in early March, and if I can offer anything towards assistance it’s a pair of willing hands - again I’m not a firefighter but if anyone local knows of links to voluntary aid/assitance needed, pls get in touch. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/91 "2009-02-10T04:40:20Z")
The picture at the top of [this page](http://business.smh.com.au/business/bushfires-bill-could-top-2b-20090210-82wj.html) shows metal running off the wheels of a truck caught in the fire.\* Molten metal\*. That was one hot fire. > [@kambuckta](#): > > Y’know the most horrible part of this whole disaster? Bloody news reporters shoving their microphones and cameras into the faces of poor bloody bastards who have lost their homes, their wives, husbands, children, their entire\*\* lives\*\* asking, “How do you feel?” > > How do you _think_ they fucking feel, moron. It’s really horrible and I reckon should be declared a violation of their human rights. :mad: > > I think this ‘Royal Commission’ they’re going to install should make its No. 1 recommendation that media outlets can report on **events** but should be banned from interviewing victims for a period of, oh, I reckon 6 months might be adequate. > > Fucking piranahs. I only watch the ABC (public free-to-air TV) and they’ve not shown or had anyone do this. Watch commercial TV news at your peril; if their ratings drop when they do that maybe they won’t do it any more. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/92 "2009-02-10T04:41:43Z")
> [@boaz](#): > > I Arrive into Melbourne in early March, and if I can offer anything towards assistance it’s a pair of willing hands - again I’m not a firefighter but if anyone local knows of links to voluntary aid/assitance needed, pls get in touch. Aside from money, I’d think donating blood would be of use. Burn victims will still be needing it then, and I imagine stocks will be low too. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/93 "2009-02-10T05:04:34Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > The picture at the top of [this page](http://business.smh.com.au/business/bushfires-bill-could-top-2b-20090210-82wj.html) shows metal running off the wheels of a truck caught in the fire.\* Molten metal\*. That was one hot fire. Roughly 1000C (1800 - 2000F for us Yanks). Water starts to split into hydrogen and oxygen at around those temps (few hundred degrees more, IIRC). To put it in a grimmer frame of reference, the fires inside the WTC were equally as hot. On a brighter note, there is [this photo](http://i41.tinypic.com/297pyu.jpg) of a firefighter and a koala, which is utterly adorable. Lets hope this nightmare ends soon. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/94 "2009-02-10T07:14:16Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Aside from money, I’d think donating blood would be of use. Burn victims will still be needing it then, and I imagine stocks will be low too. Might not be [allowable](http://www.donateblood.com.au/page.aspx?IDDataTreeMenu=88&parent=30#answer55) if donor has lived in UK. ---
**Author:** ![mudkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@mudkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/95 "2009-02-10T08:00:48Z")
Yup, you’re right, Bathsheba. Also checked the Red Cross site but only permanent residents or visitors with a work visa are allowed to volunteer. Don’t want to hijack the thread with this, so will say no more about it, but if anyone does know a way I can help let me know. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/96 "2009-02-10T11:14:51Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I only watch the ABC (public free-to-air TV) and they’ve not shown or had anyone do this. Watch commercial TV news at your peril; if their ratings drop when they do that maybe they won’t do it any more. Oh, what a lovely pair of rose-coloured glasses you have on there, can I borrow them? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/97 "2009-02-10T11:38:36Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > **There’s no doubt** : the Churchill fire was deliberately lit. Some of the burnt out areas have been taped off and are being treated as a crime scene. If the place is still being treated as a crime scene, how can anyone be so certain at this point? Unless accelerants were used, how do you determine where a bush fire started? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/98 "2009-02-10T11:39:44Z")
Coming up on _Today Tonight_, we confront the spectacle thief. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/99 "2009-02-10T11:51:14Z")
I was only gonna\* borrow\* them **Hawthorne**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/100 "2009-02-10T11:53:53Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If the place is still being treated as a crime scene, how can anyone be so certain at this point? Presumably the crime is without doubt but the fine details still need to be collected. > [@](#): > > Unless accelerants were used, how do you determine where a bush fire started? I don’t know. I suspect that a naturally occurring fire has tell tale signs that a single point arson fire does not or vice versa. I’m happy to let those who have the expertise work out what’s happened and I’m sure we’ll find out the details in good time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898.md?page=6)