# Arsonists- May They Rot In Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898 "2009-02-08T05:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/101 "2009-02-10T11:59:51Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:100, topic:484898”] Presumably the crime is without doubt but the fine details still need to be collected. I don’t know. I suspect that a naturally occurring fire has tell tale signs that a single point arson fire does not or vice versa. I’m happy to let those who have the expertise work out what’s happened and I’m sure we’ll find out the details in good time. [/QUOTE] Fair do’s, but this seems an awfully convenient scapegoat for the authorities. > [@](#): > > Police in Australia’s southern Victoria believe arsonists started some of the fires that have killed more than 130 people, and investigations have started to try to track down the perpetrators. But, similar cases in Australia and the US indicate that it could be a long and frustrating process. > > Apart from the fact that an experienced bushfire arsonist is an elusive culprit, much of the crime scene evidence is immediately destroyed or is altered significantly. > > According to the AIC report, only a small proportion of arsonists are ever caught. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/102 "2009-02-10T12:04:41Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Fair do’s, but this seems an awfully convenient scapegoat for the authorities. If they were trying to say that ALL of the fires were started by arsonists I might agree but the authorities seem to be taking fair criticism when necessary. there’ll be a lot to come out of this, from backburning to escape planning. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/103 "2009-02-10T12:34:36Z")
Well trying to sort the facts from the fiction in local gossip is an impossible task at the moment, but what I’ve heard is that the Churchill fire had multiple points of origin that cannot be explained by embers from one location starting spot fires in another. There are stories of people, including firefighters, seeing a man lighting the fires but being unable to get to him. There’s reports on the news that police are refusing to confirm that they have a video of the suspect - presumably one of the people who has seen him at work has managed to video it. There’s a story of a man on a motorbike being seen spraying petrol down the side of the road from a backpack spray like those used for killing weeds. At times like this when emotions run high, when people are panicked and distressed and when the lynchmob mentality is taking over then all sorts of crazy stories get around, but there’s a good chance that some of the above will prove to be true. And it’s very true that the police and fire brigade do not have any doubt that the fires were deliberately lit. If it’s the same guy who tried to light up the pine plantation opposite the paper mill recently, he may even have left evidence of the attempt (in that case, a bundle wrapped up in tape which he lit and threw in, but which didn’t catch). I know that when the fires eased on Sunday the firefighters were outraged to find he’d tried to relight them in several places - perhaps they found similar devices? ---
**Author:** ![mudkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@mudkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/104 "2009-02-10T12:38:49Z")
Very oddly argued piece in today’s Guardian comment pages: > **[Natalie Bennett: The fires have led to terrible tragedy. When will we realise...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/09/australia-fires-natural-disaster?commentpage=1)** > > Natalie Bennett: The fires have led to terrible tragedy. When will we realise Australia's environment is incompatible with the way we live in it? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/105 "2009-02-10T13:01:34Z")
> [@mudkicker](#): > > Very oddly argued piece in today’s Guardian comment pages: > > [The 'continent of smoke' is still burning | Natalie Bennett | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/09/australia-fires-natural-disaster?commentpage=1) Interesting. Her conclusion is that the land is unsuitable. My conclusion is that the land is mismanaged. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/106 "2009-02-10T13:08:52Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:100, topic:484898”] Presumably the crime is without doubt but the fine details still need to be collected. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t be assuming this for a moment. I suspect there’s not much evidence at all of arson, but that there is a lot of wanting to blame someone. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/107 "2009-02-10T13:28:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I wouldn’t be assuming this for a moment. I suspect there’s not much evidence at all of arson, but that there is a lot of wanting to blame someone. I was just supplying a possible reason for how the fact of arson might be accepted by police but the area may still be a crime scene. Also, why aren’t they “blaming someone” for all the other fires? They seem openly suspicious of the Churchill fire but merely following formalities for some of the others including the Kinglake one. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/108 "2009-02-10T13:50:19Z")
181 now confirmed dead. About fifty cannot be identified by conventional means. Both those figures will probably rise. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/109 "2009-02-11T08:21:29Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:107, topic:484898”] Also, why aren’t they “blaming someone” for all the other fires? They seem openly suspicious of the Churchill fire but merely following formalities for some of the others including the Kinglake one. [/QUOTE] I didn’t know that. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/110 "2009-02-11T09:58:36Z")
Adding some more to the “burn or rot in hell list” Looters, already. Alleged to be coming down from the city to see what’s up for grabs while nobody’s looking… ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/111 "2009-02-11T10:01:31Z")
I was hoping that wouldn’t happen. How stupid am I? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/112 "2009-02-11T11:11:10Z")
The arsonist (or perhaps _an_ arsonist) struck again in Churchill today… unless that area of grassland spontaneously combusted in the 18C (64F) heat and rain. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/113 "2009-02-11T18:01:20Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > On a brighter note, there is [this photo](http://i41.tinypic.com/297pyu.jpg) of a firefighter and a koala, which is utterly adorable. Poor little guy. That photo was on the cover of Wednesday’s _Daily Xpress_ in Bangkok. An Aussie I know showed me a photo of a koala that looked like it had it’s nose burned off. ☹ Still alive, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/114 "2009-02-11T18:36:35Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Poor little guy. That photo was on the cover of Wednesday’s _Daily Xpress_ in Bangkok. An Aussie I know showed me a photo of a koala that looked like it had it’s nose burned off. ☹ Still alive, though. [Gal, it seems, and it looks like she’s going to be okay.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29123220/wid/18298287?GT1=45002) > [@](#): > > Photos and a video of Tree, 44, approaching Sam while talking gently to her, and feeding her water from a plastic bottle as she put her burned claw in his cold, wet hand quickly hit video sharing Web site YouTube, making her an Internet sensation. There’s been a number of stories of koalas coming up to humans to ask for water. Its totally unnatural for them to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/115 "2009-02-12T00:11:15Z")
Unnatural, perhaps, but a sign of both intelligence and desperation - desperation leading a wild animal that normal avoid human contact to ask for help, and intelligence in knowing that humans can be a source of water. ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/116 "2009-02-12T01:22:08Z")
A recent development: [Police arrest two over Vic bushfires](http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/full-coverage/5316297/arsonists-lit-churchill-nixon/) I really don’t get the feeling that anyone here’s looking for a scapegoat. It would be far easier to deal with if it was all just an awful act of nature, and I don’t see how any of the other issues - land mismanagement, problems with the ‘leave early or stay and fight’ advice, etc - will be in any way lessened if the fires were deliberate rather than natural. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/117 "2009-02-12T03:31:45Z")
As for determining arson in brush fires, this is actually a well-established field. Everything from tracing the fire to its ignition point, to examining the scene at that ignition point, to reading burn patterns, to collecting vapors at the scene for spectrographic annalysis - All that, and a lot more. Arson investigation is always a delicate task, but this field is NOT random. God Bless, to all affected - May some semblance of normalcy return soonest. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/118 "2009-02-12T11:16:20Z")
> [@Sierra\_Indigo](#): > > Adding some more to the “burn or rot in hell list” > > Looters, already. Alleged to be coming down from the city to see what’s up for grabs while nobody’s looking… And what would they be expected to find in such a ravaged area? This just sounds too dumb to be believable. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/119 "2009-02-12T11:35:08Z")
I must admit I thought the same, but it turns out reports of looters haven’t been substantiated. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898/120 "2009-02-12T11:48:43Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I must admit I thought the same, but it turns out reports of looters haven’t been substantiated. So, more misdirected anger, it seems? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arsonists-may-they-rot-in-hell/484898.md?page=7)