# Article on Christianity and gaybashing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115 "2005-04-06T23:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/81 "2005-04-15T16:12:30Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > On second thought, a better question to ask would be: Why do you think I believe a post must be directed to someone to attack them? > > My argument isn’t: **Zoe** isn’t insulting **gobear** because she wasn’t responding to him. > > It’s: **Zoe** ’s post isn’t an example of someone attacking **gobear** for making a generalization that he didn’t make. > > Does that make sense? > [@](#): > > Posted by **Zoe** : > Since gobear has been a victim of bigotry and discrimination, I would expect him to be even more on guard against any tendency to **generalize** , stereotype, label and victimize others with bigotry. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/82 "2005-04-15T16:16:05Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Does that make sense? Yes, it does. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/83 "2005-04-15T16:23:22Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Well, he became a cardinal before the whole scandal started, back in '84. As for the position he holds now, the church of St. Mary Major is one of the places where the Vatican puts retired cardinals while they wait for them to die. It’s not a particulary important or prestigious posting. You sort of get the idea that the people in the Vatican said, “We have to put Law somewhere, and it has to be somewhere that doesn’t require pastoral or administrative skills, because he’s shown he can’t handle that, so lets just put him in nominal charge of St. Mary Major, where he can just slip away to obscurity.” They might not have even thought of the fact that one of the jobs of the archpriest was to hold a memorial mass for the Pope. I’m sure they thought of it when he started forming the plans for the memorial mass. That’s when, if they had any sense of right and wrong, they would have pushed him aside and had someone else do it. It is a good ol’ boys club in the extreme. Anyone who believes ANY of them, including the POPE, thought what happened was really bad, is really deluded. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/84 "2005-04-15T16:27:08Z")
To the gay members here: Having been yourselves condemned by stereotypes based on a small minority among you, can you not recognize how many of us Christians feel about getting the same treatment? To the Christian members here: Is nobody but me willing to **let go** of an apparent offensive remark? Think about what you’ve had to say here the next time you recite the Lord’s Prayer: “…Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us…” ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/85 "2005-04-15T16:32:50Z")
But what if we’re both? 😕 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/86 "2005-04-15T19:06:44Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I WANT YOU TO BE \*\*LOUDER \*\*AND ORGANIZE AND STAND ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE BAD GUYS WHEN THEY DEMONSTRATE AND **DEMONSTRATE LOUDER!** MORE OFTEN! MAKE THE FACE OF CHRISTIANITY SOMETHING OTHER THAN BIGOTRY! SOMETHING LESS HATEFUL AND **MORE TOLERANT!** I can’t counter protest every ignorant asshole who believes that God hates gay peopls. Hell, there are lots of counter protests I would love to do, but I have a life that I can’t abandon. What you’re asking is impossible. > [@Kalhoun](#): > > Or quit associating yourself with christianity. No, I don’t think I’ll do that. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/87 "2005-04-15T19:39:10Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I can’t counter protest every ignorant asshole who believes that God hates gay peopls. Hell, there are lots of counter protests I would love to do, but I have a life that I can’t abandon. What you’re asking is impossible. No, it’s not. All you have to do is to not be silent in the face of hate. I’ll repeat a real-life example from an earlier post: > [@](#): > > I don’t expect any single Christian or pro-gay Republican to shoulder the burden of reversing the tide of intolerance that is sweeping our country, but what you must not do is stay silent. I’ll share with you something that happened at work a week or so ago. A co-worker and I were discussing the _American Idol_ results show, and I said that I liked Anwar but he needed to sing better to win. She said, “I don’t like Anwar, he seems kinda sweet (African American slang for gay) to me.” I said, “What’s wrong with being sweet ?” She said, “I don’t like sweet boys, that’s nasty.” I said, “I’m sweet, am I nasty?” She mumbled something and walked away. We haven’t talked since. I’m not obviously gay, but I’m damn sure not going to be quiet when I hear bigotry expressed like that. I don’t ask anything of anyone that I’m not willing to do myself. And since you’re a believing Christian, I offer you Matthew 5:13-16 > [@](#): > > "You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father. So be a good example to your co-religionists and the people around you by speaking up when you see injustice, particularly when it is being perpetrated by people who share your faith. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/88 "2005-04-15T19:43:13Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’m sure they thought of it when he started forming the plans for the memorial mass. That’s when, if they had any sense of right and wrong, they would have pushed him aside and had someone else do it. > > It is a good ol’ boys club in the extreme. Anyone who believes ANY of them, including the POPE, thought what happened was really bad, is really deluded. At that point, they couldn’t. He was the Archpriest of St. Mary Major, which meant his responsibility was to peform the mass. If they wanted to remove him, the Pope would have to do that, and the Pope was dead. And, you’re right, Vatican is largely an old boy’s club. That doesn’t mean, though, that any of them think that child molestation is ok. I doubt even Cardinal Law thinks it’s ok. He was just remarkably incompetent when it came to dealing with it in his archdiocese. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/89 "2005-04-15T19:47:17Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > So be a good example to your co-religionists and the people around you by speaking up when you see injustice, particularly when it is being perpetrated by people who share your faith. That’s what I try to do. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/90 "2005-04-15T19:49:37Z")
And to add to an earlier hijack, I’d like to go on record as saying that while **gobear** has pissed me off in the past with regards to his broad brushstroking of all Christians, I’ve noticed that he’s gotten much better about it these past few months. Just so you don’t think it’s gone completely unnoticed, because it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/91 "2005-04-15T20:01:31Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > It’s one of the reasons why you won’t see me here after April 28th. I seed no reason to spend money to be smeared by the wilfully dishonest. I’m genuinely disappointed to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/92 "2005-04-15T20:59:40Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > To the Christian members here: Is nobody but me willing to **let go** of an apparent offensive remark? Think about what you’ve had to say here the next time you recite the Lord’s Prayer: “…Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us…” I’m onboard…sometimes I do let go, but other times, not as easily…but I’ll keep trying. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/93 "2005-04-15T21:14:12Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I can’t counter protest every ignorant asshole who believes that God hates gay peopls. Hell, there are lots of counter protests I would love to do, but I have a life that I can’t abandon. What you’re asking is impossible. > > No, I don’t think I’ll do that. Well, all I hear is a bunch of christians saying that they’re going to let the bad guys hold their religion hostage. If that’s the case, quit bitching about how unfair it is to associate all christians with bigotry. If what you say is true, that the majority of christians don’t think this way, then you should have no problem drowning out the bad guys, openly accepting gays into high positions in the church, promoting women to the highest positions, and allowing the criminals to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But it appears you are either not trying hard enough as a group, or you’re a bunch of wimps who have given up the fight. And in the end, you will still be painted with the brush you say is so unfair. And brother, if the shoe fits… ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/94 "2005-04-15T21:21:17Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > At that point, they couldn’t. He was the Archpriest of St. Mary Major, which meant his responsibility was to peform the mass. If they wanted to remove him, the Pope would have to do that, and the Pope was dead. > > And, you’re right, Vatican is largely an old boy’s club. That doesn’t mean, though, that any of them think that child molestation is ok. I doubt even Cardinal Law thinks it’s ok. He was just remarkably incompetent when it came to dealing with it in his archdiocese. To even suggest that this is a case of incompetence is a slap in the face to every one of those kids who were molested by those asshole priests. Even more pathetic that the vatican actually has no back-up plan. What if he murdered someone? Would they still let him because there was no new pope? You know…as much as you may want to believe it, catholicism does not trump law. They could have removed him if they felt he was wrong. They chose not to. And they were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/95 "2005-04-15T21:38:09Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Well, all I hear is a bunch of christians saying that they’re going to let the bad guys hold their religion hostage. If that’s the case, quit bitching about how unfair it is to associate all christians with bigotry. If what you say is true, that the majority of christians don’t think this way, then you should have no problem drowning out the bad guys, openly accepting gays into high positions in the church, promoting women to the highest positions, and allowing the criminals to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But it appears you are either not trying hard enough as a group, or you’re a bunch of wimps who have given up the fight. And in the end, you will still be painted with the brush you say is so unfair. And brother, if the shoe fits… Your inability to distinguish the assholes from the regular God fearing folk is your problem, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115/96 "2005-04-15T21:55:13Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > To even suggest that this is a case of incompetence is a slap in the face to every one of those kids who were molested by those asshole priests. Even more pathetic that the vatican actually has no back-up plan. What if he murdered someone? Would they still let him because there was no new pope? You know…as much as you may want to believe it, catholicism does not trump law. They could have removed him if they felt he was wrong. They chose not to. And they were wrong. Removed him from what? Removed him as Cardinal, or removed him as Archpriest of Mary Major? I don’t really understand what you’re asking. The thing is, I don’t know that there were grounds to remove him as Archpriest, because he didn’t do anything while he was in the office that would warrant removal. Check canons 192-196, which say that removal has to be for a “just reason”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-christianity-and-gaybashing/298115.md?page=4)