# Article on Excommunication is a bit off **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 13, 2001, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-excommunication-is-a-bit-off/93176 "2001-11-13T20:14:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-excommunication-is-a-bit-off/93176/1 "2001-11-13T20:14:49Z")
In [this article](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_242.html) Cecil wrote: > [@](#): > > Strictly speaking, excommunication does not render you a non-Catholic. It merely means you’re a Catholic who’s been damned to hell. According to [this site](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm) that would seem to be wrong. > [@](#): > > Undoubtedly the Church cannot (nor does it wish to) oppose any obstacle to the internal relations of the soul with God; she even implores God to give the grace of repentance to the excommunicated. The rites of the Church, nevertheless, are always the providential and regular channel through which Divine grace is conveyed to Christians; exclusion from such rites, especially from the sacraments, entails therefore regularly the privation of this grace, to whose sources the excommunicated person has no longer access. [Encyclopedia.Com](http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/04313.html?uniq=4350) had this to say about it: > [@](#): > > Those who die excommunicate are not publicly prayed for; but excommunication is not equivalent to damnation. From the above I gather that being excommunicated in no way helps your admission into heaven but neither does it condemn you to hell…it just makes it a bit easier to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-excommunication-is-a-bit-off/93176/2 "2001-11-13T20:49:50Z")
That Catholic Encyclopedia article is pretty good. You might want to have another look at the section entitled [Excommunication not only External](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm), IANACatholic (or theologian) but that section does seem to confirm that are times that church has held that excommunication was a “spiritual penalty binding in heaven and affecting souls”, that “it severs also the internal bond, and the sentence pronounced on earth is ratified in heaven”, and that early popes condemned the idea that an excommunication was only external. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-excommunication-is-a-bit-off/93176/3 "2001-11-13T21:11:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apollyon \* > \*\*IANACatholic (or theologian) but that section does seem to confirm that are times that church has held that excommunication was a “spiritual penalty binding in heaven and affecting souls”, that “it severs also the internal bond, and the sentence pronounced on earth is ratified in heaven”, and that early popes condemned the idea that an excommunication was only external. \*\* I agree that that quote does seem to be at odds with my original quote. My take on it is that excommunication used to be equated with damnation but even then damnation was more a result of being severed from the church and being unable to partake in its rituals than it was an E-Coupon ride to hell. My original quote in the OP states that the church “implores God to give the grace of repentance to the excommunicated.” Cecil’s article mentions excommunication “isn’t intended to permanently separate you from the church; rather, it’s a “medicinal” procedure, meant to make you see the error of your ways.” You can certainly be un-excommunicated. COuld you be un-damned? All of that leads me to believe that excommunication isn’t necessarily a permanent thing that being damned would suggest it is (although it may be permanent and damnation may indeed be the result…it’s just not a foregone conclusion). (edited to remove gratuitous underlining) [Edited by Arnold Winkelried on 11-13-2001 at 05:06 PM] ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-excommunication-is-a-bit-off/93176/4 "2001-11-13T21:16:47Z")
Sorry for the underlining…I noticed my mistake before the browser showed the message as sent but it was too late nonetheless. If a Mod feels like fixing it be my guest. Sorry again… ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/article-on-excommunication-is-a-bit-off/93176/5 "2001-11-13T21:47:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > **Cecil’s article mentions excommunication “isn’t intended to permanently separate you from the church; rather, it’s a “medicinal” procedure, meant to make you see the error of your ways.” You can certainly be un-excommunicated. COuld you be un-damned?** That same Catholic Encyclopedia article seems to consider the original use of excommunication to be similar to a penitent state, with the implication I guess, that one both wishes to regain grace and may do so. It also mentions that dead folk are no longer considered part of the church militant and can’t be excommunicated, but that they can be forgiven… which raises the amusing possibility of **Demon:** “Hey, you, Galileo, out of the lake of boiling blood, yer pardon’s come through!”. 🙂