# Artifact - Valve's new DOTA-themed collectable card game, is incredibly greedy **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 18, 2018, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726 "2018-11-18T08:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/21 "2018-12-03T07:40:12Z")
[The numbers](https://steamcharts.com/app/583950) haven’t fallen off too much but that just can’t be what they were hoping for. I wonder how much the average person has paid in. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/22 "2018-12-03T18:38:22Z")
Just took a peek at the action on Twitch. Gaara (a Tempo Storm pro and usually a Hearthstone streamer) is: Constructed - Current Score: 66-7 Looks like another major stumbling block toward gaining and retaining new players. I don’t know much about the game at all but that appears to mean that those with experience will be totally crushing the newcomers; probably not enough luck in the game to keep potential whales coming back except for a handful of pros who’ve been playing since Beta first started. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/23 "2018-12-08T22:59:10Z")
Well, it’s a failure. 24 hour peaks are under 20000 after a week. This is definitely not the direction that a successful tcg/ccg goes. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/24 "2018-12-09T14:37:29Z")
Twitch viewers have dropped precipitously. They peaked at 60,000 the day after release – last night there were 1,700. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/25 "2018-12-09T14:48:50Z")
It doesn’t seem to be an interesting game to watch. It looks like an interesting game to me, but I’m certainly not buying in now. And I don’t watch other people play anything on Twitch. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/26 "2018-12-09T15:40:46Z")
Something else I found interesting is this isn’t even Richard Garfield’s only new recent release. He also has a game called Keyforge that just came out. I would think he would want to focus in one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/27 "2018-12-09T17:49:49Z")
Oh, this was Garfield, too? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/28 "2018-12-10T18:59:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, this was Garfield, too? It is indeed. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/29 "2018-12-14T22:41:17Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Something else I found interesting is this isn’t even Richard Garfield’s only new recent release. He also has a game called Keyforge that just came out. I would think he would want to focus in one or the other. My impression is that Garfield has more game ideas than time to implement them, so he definitely does not focus on one thing for very long. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/30 "2019-01-11T14:49:47Z")
Looks like this game is dying. Only [2200](https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/7222/artifact-sinks-to-2200-concurrent-players) players after a couple of months is not good. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/31 "2019-01-11T14:54:37Z")
Yeah, it’s doing about as badly as a dota-themed valve-published game could do, I think. I’m curious what numbers hearthstone pulls, to compare to what a wildly successful card game does. I know they say millions of players, but Blizzard will fudge their numbers all the time if they want. I believe it to be extremely profitable though, at one point it was in the top 10 of all digital purchase games on all platforms in its first year, and I think it grew for at least the first 2-3 years. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/32 "2019-01-11T15:03:18Z")
You have to be careful in how you count number of players for Hearthstone, as the base game is free. I downloaded, installed, and tried it out, and then decided that it wasn’t for me and quit, without ever spending any money on it. Anyone who wanted to make the numbers look impressive could pick a standard which would include me, but any real reflection of how popular the game actually is wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/33 "2019-01-11T15:10:35Z")
Oh definitely. The thing I’d want to compare would be concurrent player count, which I’ve always been curious about. You could compare gross revenues, too, but hearthstone would crush it there - it made 416m in 2017 apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/34 "2019-03-10T02:25:25Z")
I guess this game is all but dead. Player base is down 99% from peak and devs have been fired and contracts terminated. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/35 "2019-03-10T02:37:20Z")
It’s heartwarming when games that deserve to die do, and they can become a cautionary tale. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/36 "2019-03-10T03:01:47Z")
I’m just sad that, of all the games that Valve could have chosen to make themselves, they chose this one, instead of the next Portal or Half-Life or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/37 "2019-03-10T03:23:57Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I guess this game is all but dead. Player base is down 99% from peak and devs have been fired and contracts terminated. I guess that million dollar tournament isn’t happening. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/38 "2019-03-11T12:31:57Z")
I never did buy it, and neither did anyone I know. Are there any links to stories about dev layoffs and such? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/39 "2019-03-11T14:04:29Z")
Story in [Eurogamer](https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-03-09-concern-for-artifact-as-magic-the-gathering-creator-leaves-valve-amid-layoffs). And [another](https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/741893/Dr+Richard+Garfield+laid+off+as+a+contractor+for+Artifact/). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726/40 "2019-03-11T22:18:46Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > What seems lost on Artifact is Magic Online (not Arena but the original) could use that business model because: Also it was 15+ years ago. I can’t imagine it’s possible to launch a successful CCG-like game online without a freemium model, and it probably hasn’t been possible for a decade. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artifact-valves-new-dota-themed-collectable-card-game-is-incredibly-greedy/824726.md?page=3)