# Artists that were insane/murderers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754 "2005-09-27T23:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bubastis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bubastis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubastis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/1 "2005-09-27T23:19:26Z")
Can anyone point me in the direction of an artist who may have been insane, or tried for murder, such like? Especially someone at the turn of the century (1800-1900, that is)? Not neccesarily a convicted murderer, any serious crime will do, rape, kidnapping, etc. When I say artist, I mean painter rather than sculptor, etc. Don’t ask why I need such information, its all very hush-hush! ---
**Author:** ![Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erinaceus_europaeus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/2 "2005-09-27T23:30:00Z")
> [@bubastis](#): > > When I say artist, I mean painter rather than sculptor, etc. So you mean just painters, or am I confused? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/3 "2005-09-27T23:32:50Z")
Does cutting off one of your own ears for your girlfriend count as insane? ---
**Author:** ![Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erinaceus_europaeus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/4 "2005-09-27T23:34:41Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Does cutting off one of your own ears for your girlfriend count as insane? But that’s not a crime. Oscar Wilde was convicted for “committing acts of gross indecency with other male persons”, but he was a writer. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/5 "2005-09-27T23:40:31Z")
I think it’d be a challenge to find an artist who wasn’t at least a little bit insane. How strict is the turn of the century painter requirement? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/6 "2005-09-27T23:43:47Z")
There was William Burroughs, who shot his wife right through the head. Of course, it may not fit your time period, but then, you identified 1800-1900 as “the turn of the century,” so I dunno what the heck you’re after. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/7 "2005-09-28T00:00:23Z")
Charley Manson tried to become a pop singer. Hitler painted postcards. ---
**Author:** ![bubastis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bubastis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubastis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/8 "2005-09-28T00:11:59Z")
OK, basically I’ve written a story about a painter who murders those whose portraits he paints. We were supposed to base our stories on fact, so now I’m looking for stories of anything that fits the above. So, a mad painter, or one arrested for some serious crime, or the like. I’ll just claim artistic license, uh, of a supposedly true story… I’ve really dug myself into the ground here, folks. Even that William Burroughs guy might do. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/9 "2005-09-28T00:12:12Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Hitler painted postcards. I think we have a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/10 "2005-09-28T00:14:36Z")
Oh. On the other hand… > [@bubastis](#): > > OK, basically I’ve written a story about a painter who murders those whose portraits he paints. We were supposed to base our stories on fact, so now I’m looking for stories of anything that fits the above. So, a mad painter, or one arrested for some serious crime, or the like. I’ll just claim artistic license, uh, of a supposedly true story… I’ve really dug myself into the ground here, folks. Even that William Burroughs guy might do. Burroughs was a novelist and poet, not a painter. Maybe you could be less specific and say there are clues in the paintings instead of just portraits? That might make your life easier. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/11 "2005-09-28T00:38:55Z")
Crime novelist Patricia Cornwell claims that Jack the Ripper was actually painter [Walter Sickert](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/ripper/sickert_18.html?sect=1). ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/12 "2005-09-28T00:52:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think we have a winner. No, you see, I can only declare victory in a thread I haven’t won. 🙂 But really, I did a search on the key term, and the name Nico Claux popped up. Believe me, you do not want to know the details. Let it be sufficent that he murdered some people, then painted a bit after he was served his sentence. Oh, and I searched for info on what pravnik said, and I found [this](http://www.artcyclopedia.com/feature-2002-11.html). It has some links to some artists of the time who painted weird and wild stuff. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/13 "2005-09-28T01:00:47Z")
I can’t find links to any of them, but some of the pictures painted by 1957 Nebraska spree killer Charles Starkweather (after he’d been put on ice) look pretty good to my untrained eyes. Certainly better than anything by Hitler _(USA! USA!)_ ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/14 "2005-09-28T05:24:13Z")
Try doing a Google search on “outsider art”. Here’s a [sample result](http://www.rawvision.com/back/wolfli/wolfli.html). If you have access to back issues of Bizarre magazine, you may run across an article or two that would be of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/15 "2005-09-28T07:30:23Z")
How about [Richard Dadd](http://www.noumenal.com/marc/dadd/)? He went mad and killed his own father. Queen did a song about one of his paintings. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/16 "2005-09-28T09:54:43Z")
Italian painter [Caravaggio](http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/caravaggio/) killed a tennis opponent after the guy disputed the score and generally got himself involved in scraps and on the wrong side of the law. His paintings are terrific. ---
**Author:** ![Fortean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fortean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fortean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/17 "2005-09-28T11:13:14Z")
Richard Dadd painted the semi-famous Fairy-feller’s Master Stroke, found here: [http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/d/p-dadd1.htm](http://virtualart.admin.tomsk.ru/d/p-dadd1.htm) See the guy with the big axe in the middle? That’s supposedly a representation of Dadd killing his own father, which he did in 1843, erroneously supposing him to be the devil. > **[Richard Dadd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dadd)** > > Richard Dadd (1 August 1817 – 7 January 1886) was an English painter of the Victorian era, noted for his depictions of fairies and other supernatural subjects, Orientalist scenes, and enigmatic genre scenes, rendered with obsessively minuscule detail. Most of the works for which he is best known were created while he was a patient in Bethlem and Broadmoor hospitals. > Richard Dadd was born at Chatham, Kent, England, on 1 August 1817, the son of chemist Robert Dadd (1788/9–1843) and Mary Ann (17... Mary Lamb, who co-wrote Tales from Shakespeare with her brother Charles, stabbed her mother one day with the carving knife. [http://www.susantylerhitchcock.com/level2\_madmary.htm](http://www.susantylerhitchcock.com/level2_madmary.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/18 "2005-09-28T11:40:26Z")
John Wayne Gacy painted while in prison. A local boutique had one of his works, a skull-faced clown, for sale a couple years ago. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/19 "2005-09-28T12:57:36Z")
Ezra Pound was institutionalized toward the end of his life. There is some debate as to whether he was truly insane or was institutionalized for political reasons (he supported Mussolini). In any case, it kept him from behind tried for treason. Jack Abbott wrote **In the Belly of the Beast** , a series of letters describing his life in prison. That normally would be stretching the definition, only the book’s success led him to be paroled (he had already killed a prisoner while in jail, though he was first sent up for forgery). Six weeks after he got out, he stabbed and killed a waiter in a NYC restaurant. He was convicted and sent back to jail, where he eventually hanged himself. ---
**Author:** ![snorlax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@snorlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snorlax)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754/20 "2005-09-28T13:13:29Z")
How about [Louis Wain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Wain)? He painted pictures of cats which became progressively more disturbing as he went insane: [![](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-normal.jpg) ](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-normal.jpg) [![](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-1.jpg) ](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-1.jpg) [![](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-2.jpg) ](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-2.jpg) [![](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-3.jpg) ](http://lemonodor.com/archives/images/wain-cat-3.jpg) He fits the time period, but never killed anybody (or any cats as far as I am aware). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-that-were-insane-murderers/323754.md?page=2)