# Artists who arguably have produced BOTH the best AND the worst in their field **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937 "2020-01-04T16:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/81 "2020-01-06T22:25:30Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > What about George Clooney? > > He was absolutely amazing in Up in the Air and O Brother Where Art Thou while also bringing us Return to Horror High and Return of the Killer Tomatoes. Not to mention Batman and Robin ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/82 "2020-01-06T22:29:35Z")
The earlier Bond films had a sort of period charm about them and suitably over the top plots. Somewhere along the line they started to take themselves seriously and lost the charm. All you get is a somewhat meh action film like any other. But one of the early films is seldom if ever shown. And with very good reason. The first version of _Casino Royale_ from the sixties is just so unbelievably bad … that you just have to see it. Once, anyway. It was something like one of the worst and least inspired\* Carry On\* films, with some incredibly infantile bits. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/83 "2020-01-06T22:31:37Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Heart > > Went from \*Crazy On You \*and _Magic Man_ to _These Dreams_. When my ex-girlfriend’s brother showed us his CD that it was on (don’t even know the name), I wanted to recommend _Dreamboat Annie_, but realized the band that made _These Dreams_ was completely different. > > Yes, Ann and Nancy could still bring it live, but the damage was done and can never be undone. Not sure if there’s any correlation between their marked creative downturn and some of their final hits being written by David Foster. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ve always felt that “You Better You Bet” sounds like the Who imitating their earlier selves. Like, from _The Who Sell Out_? I thought it sounded like something from the 80s. Especially the slow break-down parts. > [@dorvann](#): > > The worst film I have seen Michael Caine in is _On Deadly Ground_----a film directed, co-produced and starring Steven Seagal. Here is one anecdote about it: :pI’m getting serious head explosions trying to imagine a Chinese-muumuu’ed Seagal imparting his zen-like directing wisdom to Mr. Caine, sorta like Gronk putting Ben Kingsley through the blocking paces. > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Partly because [the Beatles] have a tendency to be infantile. Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/84 "2020-01-06T22:41:12Z")
OooOooo! Here’s one: The Beatles. They gave us John Lennon _and_ Ringo Starr. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/85 "2020-01-06T22:45:20Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > OooOooo! Here’s one: > > The Beatles. They gave us John Lennon _and_ Ringo Starr. I almost want to ask which one you consider “best” and which “worst.” ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/86 "2020-01-06T22:50:26Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > OooOooo! Here’s one: > > The Beatles. They gave us John Lennon _and_ Ringo Starr. Which one is the best and which is the worst? ETA: ninja’ed ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/87 "2020-01-06T22:53:03Z")
> [@Little\_Brother\_1](#): > > It’s a tangent, but this brings to mind “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer”. I find it tolerable; it’s obviously intended as a lightweight snarky, macabre tune in the tradition of Ringo’s “Don’t Pass Me By”. > > But I was recently checking out some Beatles analysis/criticism on the Internets, and belatedly discovered that some professional critics and fans _hate_ this song with the white-hot intensity of ten thousand burning suns. One critic was infuriated that such utterly tasteless adolescent dreck was deemed fit to include with the rest of “Abbey Road”. > > Meh. I see where they’re coming from. But I can still listen to it. The rest of the band’s comments on it are funny. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/88 "2020-01-06T22:59:16Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > The rest of the band’s comments on it are funny. Was that the one where the story was basically something like Paul McCartney had some weird obsession with getting this song exactly right in studio, making the band go through many takes, while the rest of them were like “let’s just move the fuck on and do something else”? Or something to that effect? Or am I thinking of another Paul McCartney song? ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/89 "2020-01-06T23:02:39Z")
Marcel Duchamp. In the Philadelphia Museum of Art is one of my favorite paintings, [Nude Descending a Staircase (No. 2)](https://philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/51449.html?mulR=352264079%7C90). In the same gallery is his “found art” piece [Fountain](https://philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/92488.html?mulR=1353278357%7C59). ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/90 "2020-01-06T23:21:41Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > OooOooo! Here’s one: > > The Beatles. They gave us John Lennon _and_ Ringo Starr. Ouch. 🙂 > [@pulykamell](#): > > Or am I thinking of another Paul McCartney song? Thank-you for a laugh-out loud moment. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/91 "2020-01-06T23:58:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Was that the one where the story was basically something like Paul McCartney had some weird obsession with getting this song exactly right in studio, making the band go through many takes, while the rest of them were like “let’s just move the fuck on and do something else”? Or something to that effect? Or am I thinking of another Paul McCartney song? They said the same thing about “Ob La Di, Ob La Da” too. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/92 "2020-01-07T00:04:31Z")
> [@Little\_Brother\_1](#): > > It’s a tangent, but this brings to mind “Maxwell’s Silver Hammer”. I find it tolerable; it’s obviously intended as a lightweight snarky, macabre tune in the tradition of Ringo’s “Don’t Pass Me By”. > > But I was recently checking out some Beatles analysis/criticism on the Internets, and belatedly discovered that some professional critics and fans _hate_ this song with the white-hot intensity of ten thousand burning suns. One critic was infuriated that such utterly tasteless adolescent dreck was deemed fit to include with the rest of “Abbey Road”. Those people are fools with assholes for ears then. MSH is perfect for what it is, and Abbey Road is perfect for including it. The eclecticism is part of what makes the album great. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/93 "2020-01-07T01:34:47Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The eclecticism is part of what makes the album great. Especially with the _White Album_, which is probably why it might be my favourite. Aerosmith went from _Toys in the Attic_ lp / “Back In the Saddle” / “Last Child” to… :o"I Don’t Wanna Miss A Thing":o Cheap Trick went from “Surrender” / “He’s A Whore” to “The Flame”. Those last two examples I think are _rock solid_ ones for the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/94 "2020-01-07T02:05:02Z")
Welles went from Kane/Ambersons/Shanghai/Touch of Evil to a part-documentary-or-what-the-heckever-ya-call-it called _F is For Fake_, a tedious, rambling, disjointed sorta “pastiche”(?) of film styles that, for the life of me, seems to be praised in too many quarters these days. Not back then, so much. I’m with the back-then’ers. Even the only highlight of the film - The Hottest Woman of All Time: Oja Kodar - became just another gratuitous _and_ monotonous element in the film. from [wiki:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_for_Fake#Reception) > [@](#): > > When Welles was asked if he was creating “A documentary?” by writer Jonathan Rosenbaum he replied “No, not a documentary—a new kind of film". Sorry, OW - never became any particular kind of genre as far as I know. :smack: oooooooo sneaky Orson pulling the wool over our eyes at every turn - What’s he gonna do with “truth” _NOW_? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/95 "2020-01-07T03:18:25Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > The first Rambo was sort of OK, if questionable in various ways, but the other two were pure crap. Cobra was worse than Rambo II and III combined. Just awful. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/96 "2020-01-07T04:23:28Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > The earlier Bond films had a sort of period charm about them and suitably over the top plots. Somewhere along the line they started to take themselves seriously and lost the charm. All you get is a somewhat meh action film like any other. > > But one of the early films is seldom if ever shown. And with very good reason. The first version of _Casino Royale_ from the sixties is just so unbelievably bad … that you just have to see it. Once, anyway. It was something like one of the worst and least inspired\* Carry On\* films, with some incredibly infantile bits. That’s because the 1967 _Casino Royale_ is not part of the “mainstream” Bond film series. The film rights to the novel wound up with a producer who had no connection to any of the other Bond films, who decided to make a satire of the James Bond movies in particular and spy movies in general. It was supposed to be an all-star farce, had a troubled production, and wound up being an incoherent mess. It was never supposed to be the kind of action/adventure/thriller that all of the other Bond movies were supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/97 "2020-01-07T08:58:37Z")
Gary Oldman. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TubehkbjOuI) or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a_i1N7mvxM) or [maybe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKK-GXkfFCA) however [Tiptoes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BHE1kmoeAc) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/98 "2020-01-07T09:39:17Z")
Brayne Ded and gdave, It’s worse than that. There’s a 1954 version of _Casino Royale_ that appeared only one year after the book was published. Rights to the story were bought by somebody who had it rewritten to be one fifty-minute episode of the American television show _Climax!_. In it, James Bond was an American who worked for an American intelligence agency called the Combined Intelligence Agency. I haven’t seen it, but you can watch it online by using the link at the bottom of the Wikipedia article below. Ian Fleming probably sold the rights shortly after it was published, before any other books in the series were published. He got $1,000 for it. Maybe he was uncertain if any further books in the series would ever get published and figured he needed something to live on while he finished the second book. The American edition of _Casino Royale_ wasn’t published for almost a year after the British edition, so maybe when he sold the rights for the television show, he figured that the books would never sell well in the U.S., so it didn’t matter if Americans saw a messed-up television version of the story: > **[Casino Royale (Climax!)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(Climax!))** > > "Casino Royale" is a live 1954 television adaptation of the 1953 novel of the same name by Ian Fleming. An episode of the American dramatic anthology series Climax!, the show was the first screen adaptation of a James Bond novel, and stars Barry Nelson, Peter Lorre, and Linda Christian. Though this marks the first onscreen appearance of the secret agent, Nelson's Bond is played as an American spy working for the "Combined Intelligence Agency". > Most of the largely forgotten show was uncovered ... ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/99 "2020-01-07T11:36:54Z")
**John Lennon**. If you disagree, please state which tracks you’ve willingly listened to more than once on “Unfinished Music No. 1: Two Virgins” (1968) or “Unfinished Music No. 2: Life with the Lions” (1969) ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/100 "2020-01-07T11:46:21Z")
Ryan Reynolds has been the best Deadpool and the worst Deadpool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937.md?page=6)