# Artists who arguably have produced BOTH the best AND the worst in their field **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937 "2020-01-04T16:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/101 "2020-01-07T12:08:29Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Heart > > Went from \*Crazy On You \*and _Magic Man_ to _These Dreams_. When my ex-girlfriend’s brother showed us his CD that it was on (don’t even know the name), I wanted to recommend _Dreamboat Annie_, but realized the band that made _These Dreams_ was completely different. > > Yes, Ann and Nancy could still bring it live, but the damage was done and can never be undone. I agree with Heart in general, except _These Dreams_ is actually my _favorite_ post-70s Heart song. It would have been pretty good as a deep cut 70s track had it been produced and performed like them instead of 80s glitz. All their other post-70s singles, on the other hand, range from bland to horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/102 "2020-01-07T15:51:28Z")
How about Allan Burns? Co-creator of _My Mother the Car_ but also of _The Mary Tyler Moore Show_. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/103 "2020-01-07T17:34:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Cobra was worse than Rambo II and III combined. Just awful. Haven’t seen it. But thanks for letting me know what to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/104 "2020-01-07T17:41:19Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > That’s because the 1967 _Casino Royale_ is not part of the “mainstream” Bond film series. The film rights to the novel wound up with a producer who had no connection to any of the other Bond films, who decided to make a satire of the James Bond movies in particular and spy movies in general. It was supposed to be an all-star farce, had a troubled production, and wound up being an incoherent mess. It was never supposed to be the kind of action/adventure/thriller that all of the other Bond movies were supposed to be. Ah, thanks, that explains a lot, but now I do dimly recall that that was indeed the reason. It’s a while since I saw it, but I equally dimly recall that it had little or no connection with the book. The incoherence started with the script, or substitute thereof. Call it a prime example of a parody that became farcical. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/105 "2020-01-07T17:46:12Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Brayne Ded and gdave, > > It’s worse than that. There’s a 1954 version of _Casino Royale_ that appeared only one year after the book was published. Rights to the story were bought by somebody who had it rewritten to be one fifty-minute episode of the American television show _Climax!_. In it, James Bond was an American who worked for an American intelligence agency called the Combined Intelligence Agency. I haven’t seen it, but you can watch it online by using the link at the bottom of the Wikipedia article below. Ian Fleming probably sold the rights shortly after it was published, before any other books in the series were published. He got $1,000 for it. Maybe he was uncertain if any further books in the series would ever get published and figured he needed something to live on while he finished the second book. The American edition of _Casino Royale_ wasn’t published for almost a year after the British edition, so maybe when he sold the rights for the television show, he figured that the books would never sell well in the U.S., so it didn’t matter if Americans saw a messed-up television version of the story: > > [Casino Royale (Climax!) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(Climax!)) Sounds grim. The 1967 film version is described here: > **[Casino Royale (1967 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_Royale_(1967_film))** > > Casino Royale is a 1967 spy parody film originally distributed by Columbia Pictures featuring an ensemble cast. It is loosely based on the 1953 novel of the same name by Ian Fleming, the first novel to feature the character James Bond. > The film stars David Niven as the "original" Bond, Sir James Bond 007. Forced out of retirement to investigate the deaths and disappearances of international spies, he soon battles the mysterious Dr. Noah and SMERSH. The film's tagline: "Casino Royale is too m... ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/106 "2020-01-07T18:33:45Z")
I nominate Kevin Costner. While “Dances With Wolves” hasn’t really kept its reputation as both film-making and social consciousness have changed, it definitely had a moment in the sun of being hailed as a masterpiece and the rebirth of the epic as a genre. “Waterworld” and “The Postman” had equally (but oppositely) superlative reputations. Nicholas Cage also springs to mind, although I think it’s tough to pin bad movies solely on the actor. But he is somebody who has given performances ranging from awful to great in movies that range from awful to great. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/107 "2020-01-07T21:00:38Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Clapton is God! Proven by his playing in Cream, Blind Faith and Derek and the Dominos. The original version of _Layla_ is a deserved classic, but the reimagined Unplugged version is utter trash. No angst, no pain, no unrequited love, no soaring solos. Uggh! Second. There should be a special category in this thread for “Best AND Worst by A Single Artist Recording the Same Song.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/108 "2020-01-07T21:09:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Shakespeare wrote both _Hamlet_ and _Titus Andronicus_. While the latter is far far below his best, it probably doesn’t qualify as the worst play of all time. And perhaps Pericles. The first two acts are pretty bad, some scholars believe Shakespeare only wrote the third. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/109 "2020-01-07T21:16:27Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > Ryan Reynolds has been the best Deadpool and the worst Deadpool. That is perhaps the only answer that is correct by the terms of the OP. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/110 "2020-01-07T21:47:29Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > M. Night Shyamalan made The Sixth Sense, a really great movie. He also made The Last Airbender, a total snooze and destruction of a great show. I’ll assume you haven’t seen The Happening. It ain’t happening. Otherwise, Shymalan is a legit addition to this. My thought was John Travolta: Pulp Fiction & Battlefield Earth. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/111 "2020-01-08T01:11:16Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > … > > Monty Python - great, yeah, but always viewed through rose tinted classes. There were many, many awful unfunny sketches, played out to forced laughter barely covering the sound of tumbleweeds. > > … > j Monty Python has the same problem Saturday Night Live has—people remember all the great sketches the shows did but if you had to binge a whole season of either show there is unfunny dreck and filler. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/112 "2020-01-08T10:25:46Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > Monty Python has the same problem Saturday Night Live has—people remember all the great sketches the shows did but if you had to binge a whole season of either show there is unfunny dreck and filler. MP was ever hit and miss. ---
**Author:** ![SpeedwayRyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@SpeedwayRyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpeedwayRyan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/113 "2020-01-09T18:28:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I thought this thread was going to be about Adam Sandler. OK he isn’t be accused of making the best movie of all time but _Uncut Gems_ is being widely acclaimed with award show buzz. And then there is _Jack and Jill_ I saw a tweet recently that mentioned how Sandler makes an absolutely amazing movie about every 15 years and then goes back to playing fart wizards the rest of the time. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/114 "2020-01-09T18:33:11Z")
Adam Sandler has made some great movies. _Funny People,_ _Reign Over Me_, _Punch Drunk Love,_ and the most recent one. He absolutely possesses the capability to deliver great performances in “real” movies. He’s also either a. greedy and will whore himself out in shitty movies just to make more money, or b. actually _enjoys_ playing these lowbrow roles and relishes the opportunity to act ridiculous and wallow in shit. Either way, the fact remains that he does have the acting chops when he deigns to utilize them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/115 "2020-01-11T14:54:03Z")
The problem with greatness is it often comes from taking big chances and doing something different. Something might catch on, or not. Groups like The Beatles or Bowie tried to do new things all the time, and not everything worked. But it isn’t surprising that there is dreck among people who tried new things and sometimes achieved greatness. I like The Beatles so don’t dwell on Revolution #9. Most things that have gone on forever jump the shark; I mostly stopped watching The Simpsons years ago. BARNEY: I’m taking barbershop to new and interesting places. Number 8. BURP! Number 8. BURP! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/116 "2020-01-11T15:36:58Z")
> [@SpeedwayRyan](#): > > I saw a tweet recently that mentioned how Sandler makes an absolutely amazing movie about every 15 years and then goes back to playing fart wizards the rest of the time. 😛 I was going to mention _Punchdrunk Love_ myself, as I have never seen the other movies. I can’t remember how in the hell I ended up renting it, but I was very pleasantly surprised to see him playing a quirky, but believable and serious rather than over-the-top buffoonish, role and pulling it off so well. At that point, I didn’t think he had it in him to play these types of roles. He was perfect in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/117 "2020-01-11T21:48:02Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Adam Sandler has made some great movies. _Funny People,_ _Reign Over Me_, _Punch Drunk Love,_ and the most recent one. He absolutely possesses the capability to deliver great performances in “real” movies. He’s also either a. greedy and will whore himself out in shitty movies just to make more money, or b. actually _enjoys_ playing these lowbrow roles and relishes the opportunity to act ridiculous and wallow in shit. Either way, the fact remains that he does have the acting chops when he deigns to utilize them. From what I understand, it’s basically the latter. His comedy career basically funds a series of vacations for him and his friends to fly out somewhere, spend a few weeks fucking around in front of cameras by day, and partying at night. > [@pulykamell](#): > > I was going to mention _Punchdrunk Love_ myself, as I have never seen the other movies. I can’t remember how in the hell I ended up renting it, but I was very pleasantly surprised to see him playing a quirky, but believable and serious rather than over-the-top buffoonish, role and pulling it off so well. At that point, I didn’t think he had it in him to play these types of roles. He was perfect in that movie. I’d argue that his character in _Punchdrunk Love_ is a pretty standard Sandler character - an emotionally damaged man-baby who’s largely unequipped to function in society - except he’s not in an Adam Sandler movie, so his antics are perceived by people around him as disturbed and frightening, like they would be in real life, not hilarious and endearing. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/118 "2020-01-11T22:11:54Z")
I don’t think Monty Python has produced the _worst_ in their genre - there have been a lot worse sketches I’ve seen over the years. But I’d agree that the standard deviation in greatness was huge, since there were a lot of mediocre-but-not-execrable stuff to contrast to their moments of sheer brilliance. I don’t think they had a lot of absolute crap: either their good presence/acting or great writing usually saved the sketch. They come close to disaster when their stuff drags on for too long. For instance, my least favorite sketch, mr German-composer-with-an-overly-long name, had an interesting premise at least even if they stretched it on beyond comfortability. And another sketch that goes on for too long, the beach changing scene, took an otherwise uninteresting bit of slapstick and rescued it at the end with the protagonist’s enthusiasm when he enters the spotlight. The Tudor Smut Police under different hands would have been interminable but they made it pleasantly tolerable IMO with _both_ their writing and charisma despite the sketch’s length. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/119 "2020-01-12T01:40:38Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Second. There should be a special category in this thread for “Best AND Worst by A Single Artist Recording the Same Song.” And a similar category, from the era of 78s and 45s, would be best and worst on sides A and B of the same disc. I’ll nominate Jan & Dean’s Drag City (worst dragster song) b/w Schlock Rod (best hotrod parody). ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937/120 "2020-01-12T01:47:59Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I mostly stopped watching The Simpsons years ago I’m not making it, cuz I’m knowledgeable enough in these things to know it, but you could probably make a case for the Simpsons. Some of their earlier work is genius comedy and the best in animation (and adult animation at that), but there is also the “Problem with Apu”-response episode that, tonally, can be said it one of the most tone-deaf episodes of TV ever aired [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-arguably-have-produced-both-the-best-and-the-worst-in-their-field/845937.md?page=7)