# Artists who have excellent technique but lack "artistry" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718 "2025-10-06T15:56:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/101 "2025-10-09T02:59:20Z")
Exactly. Being a great performer and being a great songwriter are simply separate forms of artistic expression, and you don’t have to be one to be the other. -It’s almost like expecting a race car driver to also be a mechanic or something. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > You’re certainly a more sophisticated live music consumer than me. To me that style just looks like a ham hamming it up to eleventy. As cliche as William. … Shatner … Playing … Hims I was thinking something similar- how do we know that Springsteen isn’t just doing his own _act_, which is to appear really sweaty and passionate, just like Liberace’s _act_ was making it look easy and fun. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/102 "2025-10-09T06:43:45Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I was thinking something similar- how do we know that Springsteen isn’t just doing his own _act_, which is to appear really sweaty and passionate, just like Liberace’s _act_ was making it look easy and fun. Remember James Brown’s “exhausted” act? How he’d collapse to his knees, some guy would drape a jacket over his shoulders and help him offstage, only for him to heroically shrug it off and come back for another verse? Nobody thought it was real, of course, but nobody thought _he_ was fake, either. If anything, his willingness to put on a show like that was seen as proof of his passion and devotion. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/103 "2025-10-09T13:41:01Z")
Here’s a great version of that, he’s an amazing showman. [James Brown can’t keep the soul inside…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vruy2GRUsV8) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/104 "2025-10-09T17:17:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Liberace was a showman first. I’ve never heard anyone call his technique excellent. It wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/105 "2025-10-09T17:26:18Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Technically, he was amazing. I remember seeing him on Johnny Carson one night. He played a boogie-woogie number, and if you’ve ever tried to do the same on a piano (and I have), you know that it’s 8 beats to the bar. He did a fine job, but then he turned to the audience and said, “Now I’ll do the same, only in 16.” And he did. Interesting (seriously). As a wannabe classical pianist myself, I never paid much attention to him but what I remember most was his abruptly slowing waaay down for difficult passages in a Chopin etude. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/106 "2025-10-09T17:39:33Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Interesting (seriously). It’s a famous bit he did often. Here it is from a [very buttoned down Liberace](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teiH6IF_M_Y) from the movie [Sincerely Yours](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sincerely_Yours_(film)) in 1955 as he took his shot at being a movie star. Now here’s a [very, very slightly more flamboyant Liberace performing the same bit on his TV show in 1969](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9nO9Ro_kd4). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/107 "2025-10-09T17:51:38Z")
Enough bad mouthing of the greatest talent of the 20th Century… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Nr-efNazohw/hqdefault.jpg "You Can't Unsee This! Liberace and the Young Folk perform 'Feelin' Groovy'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr-efNazohw) ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/108 "2025-10-09T19:42:39Z")
Three actors come to mind as I think about this. They are all decent actors I think and deliver their lines professionally, but they don’t seem to delve into those roles very deeply. John Ritter. I think he was probably a better actor than he showed, but he mostly seemed like John Ritter in all of his roles. Conrad Bain. In the two shows I’ve seen him in, _Diff’rent Strokes_ and _Maude_, he just seemed to stand there and deliver lines. Not much character work with the roles. Ari Larter. Ari Larter’s method seems to be stand there and give a different blank stare for whatever the scene calls for. It was unfortunate on _Heroes_ because she had multiple roles and didn’t seem to handle them with any complexity. Some of this could partially be due to the work. TV acting is generally a grind so digging deeply into a role is probably way more than necessary when the goal is to crank out a bunch of episodes for a season. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/109 "2025-10-09T19:53:43Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > Karen Carpenter. She’s got a strong voice, but she completely lacks soul. However she was an artist on the drums. I give her a pass on not having passion for singing because she never wanted to be a singer but her brother and mother forced her into it. > [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > John Ritter. I think he was probably a better actor than he showed, but he mostly seemed like John Ritter in all of his roles. Even Sling Blade? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/110 "2025-10-09T19:58:05Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > John Ritter. I think he was reasonably solid playing a character role in Sling Blade. I suspect it was more a case of massive typecasting limiting his career options, so he made of that what he could given those limitations. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/111 "2025-10-09T20:19:49Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > However yeah, by contrast [this one of Mt. Whitney](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/S5AAAOSwrV1j9TN2/s-l1200.jpg) comes off as too idealistically Olympian for my taste Talk about Manfield Parrish-esque! ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/112 "2025-10-09T20:21:12Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I think he was reasonably solid playing a character role in Sling Blade Also in _Bad Santa_, where he played a repressed, uptight, and slightly stupid mall manager. That was a very different performance than he gave in _Three’s Company_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/113 "2025-10-09T20:57:38Z")
I don’t think an actor who doesn’t show a lot of range is necessarily the same thing as lacking “artistry.” Often, they’re playing the same, carefully honed and curated “character” (who often has the same name as the actor) in a variety of different vehicles, but there’s still a lot of artistry involved in creating that specific character. Paul Reubens is a good example, because his stage persona was clearly an invention - he played Pee-Wee Herman for about a decade and a half, across stage, television, and the big screen. Always the same character, but also something he clearly put a lot of work into. The same goes for a lot of other actors, from WC Fields to Ryan Reynolds. “Ryan Reynolds” is less obviously a stage persona than “Pee-Wee Herman,” but Ryan Reynolds (the actor) still puts a lot of work into crafting and presenting “Ryan Reynolds” (the persona). A lot of “character” actors do the same thing, where they find a particular character niche they’re good at, and just zero in on doing that really, really well. There can still be a lot of artistry involved in developing themselves in that niche, even if they never successfully expand beyond it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/114 "2025-10-10T00:44:35Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I do know that I am absolutely soul less as a trombone player. Technically I was up there with the best of them when it came to reading music but despite taking 2 years of improv classes from a very good jazz teacher I couldn’t play a solo to save my life. Such an artistic dummy. Hey! I played trombone! I wouldn’t say I was soul-less (or had great technique for that matter… I was ranked 3 of 10.) But I did do jazz and improv is _hard._ In fact I’d say it’s a super technical skill. You have to master your scales and key changes and somehow create melody out of that. I could never do it beyond a few boring notes. We had an exceptional trombone player in high school who just made shit up in jazz band without even trying to match the key or tempo and it was just awful. The most annoying thing is nobody else seemed to realize how much it sucked. I mean the director sure did but the other kids thought he was a god. He was a damned fine player in any other context though. He was one of those assholes who was good at everything without having to try. Which is why he never bothered to learn proper improv - that would have required _effort_. /Trombone rant ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/115 "2025-10-10T01:36:48Z")
I feel the same about Rush. Technically proficient, but poor songwriters, and much of Lifeson’s solos are just picking a musical phrase and playing it over and over and over, increasing speed each repetition. Flashy, but with no heart. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/116 "2025-10-10T15:01:37Z")
“Come on, snipers. Where are you?” ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/117 "2025-10-11T03:23:48Z")
Conversely, there’s the long-running story about David Lee Roth saying, in the middle of “Jamie’s Cryin’”, that he forgot the $%^&ing words. That lasted until people who attended multiple shows said he always did that - it was totally an act. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/118 "2025-10-11T04:05:27Z")
Boston has been mentioned by several already, and I agree. I’ve seen them twice in concert: once in 1987, and once in 2008, and their live performances were clearly calibrated to sound as close as possible to the studio recordings of the songs. Which, to me, makes sense, when one realizes that the band has always fundamentally been Tom Scholz. Scholz is an mechanical engineer, a perfectionist, and a studio geek; a big reason why they have only released six albums in 50 years (with a seventh album that’s been in the works since 2017) is that Scholz takes forever to work. So, it doesn’t surprise me that he approaches live performances in the same way: he knows _exactly_ what he wants it to sound like, and so, that’s how they play it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/119 "2025-10-11T13:21:45Z")
A possible question about concert audiences in general. Some folks attend live concerts of certain groups over and over. Others listen to their albums over and over, then attend one concert of that band in their lifetime when it happens to swing through town. The latter sort of audience will probably prefer the studio sound over the live sound. The former would prefer the opposite. The Grateful Dead of course were/are famous for the DeadHeads who follow them around the country attending substantially all their concerts. Making those folks happy time after time is probably a different artistic task than making the wear-out-the-LP folks happy. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/120 "2025-10-11T16:03:55Z")
I’ve long contended that there’s only two types of music: live, and prerecorded. Everything else is stylistic differences. (Also, the same for poetry.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718.md?page=7)