# Artists with sloppy technique but great artistry **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [October 8, 2025, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779 "2025-10-08T12:12:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/1 "2025-10-08T12:12:45Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Artists who have excellent technique but lack “artistry”](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/45): > [@Artists who have excellent technique but lack "artistry"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-have-excellent-technique-but-lack-artistry/1023718/45): > > I’d much rather listen to Thelonious Monk. His fingering could be sloppy, but he played with the feeling that I don’t hear in Tatum. Let’s have some more examples of this, the inverse of the other thread. Exhibit A: “La China Leoncia Arreo la Correntinada Trajo Entre la Muchachada la Flor de la Juventud” by Argentine saxophonist Gato Barbieri. The beginning introduces the main melodic theme slow and rubato, then gradually builds up, until it bursts out into a wild free-for-all of ecstatic Latin melody and rhythm, _muy caliente_, all kinds of native South American instruments thrown into the mix, _quena, siku_, Indian harp, _charango, bombo indio,_ an atonal whistle, what must be a horn off some animal’s head blasting untunable honks, and through it all Gato’s sax eloquently screaming the passionate melody. The melody that had been so slowly introduced before is now hurled out of Gato’s throaty sax with fury and abandon as the band careens full tilt to the explosive final note. He’s not so much on the beat or off the beat but rather the beat has grown so intense it engulfs all the notes. They all play as if possessed by demons; it’s too _caliente_ for finesse. It’s outrageously sloppy and one of the most beautiful, masterful, and heartwarming goddamn things I’ve ever heard. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xOYFSB8FWBk/maxresdefault.jpg "Leandro 'Gato' Barbieri "La China Leoncia Arreo La Correntinada..."") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOYFSB8FWBk) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/2 "2025-10-08T12:20:42Z")
Jimmy Page was unbelievably sloppy, but could write a fantastic riff. I can’t believe some of the stuff they kept on In Through the Out Door. Listen to Hot Dog from that album – those solos, whew. (YouTube is blocked for me right now, or I would post a link) ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/3 "2025-10-08T12:26:56Z")
The Incredible String Band were sometimes astonishingly sloppy, but they wrote some very memorable songs. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/4 "2025-10-08T12:49:11Z")
Two words…Keith. Moon. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/5 "2025-10-08T12:52:48Z")
Bob Dylan. Neither a virtuoso singer nor guitarist, but there’s a reason everyone and their brother covers his tunes. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/6 "2025-10-08T13:03:56Z")
Vladimir Horowitz, at least in his later years. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/7 "2025-10-08T13:18:28Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Bob Dylan. Neither a virtuoso singer nor guitarist, but there’s a reason everyone and their brother covers his tunes. I wouldn’t characterize Dylan’s voice nor his guitar playing as anything near “sloppy” (some may disagree about his voice, but I’ll fight you over that). “Everyone” covers his tunes because he is an outstanding songwriter, and, really, songwriting is the only reason to cover someone’s songs. I’m going to propose Keith Richards as sloppy but great. mmm ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/8 "2025-10-08T15:09:41Z")
Jimi Hendrix. The greatest electric guitar player ever, but the special and unique way he played and attacked his guitar, also very sloppy, especially on stage. But it blew everybody away anyway. ---
**Author:** ![2\_More\_Bits](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2_more_bits/32/4148_2.png) [@2\_More\_Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2_More_Bits)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/9 "2025-10-08T15:14:24Z")
Neil Young is famously sloppy ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/10 "2025-10-08T15:19:13Z")
Oh yes, I was also thinking about Neil Young, maybe the sloppiest electric guitar player ever (not so when playing acoustic, he can play surprisingly lyrically). But let’s not forget that there are whole musical genres defined by sloppiness, like garage, punk, grunge and noise rock, all genres Neil has influenced. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/11 "2025-10-08T15:39:41Z")
Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson is considered to one of the greatest pro wrestlers of all time due to his tremendous charisma, his promo ability and his ability to work the audience. BUT he was notorious in pro wrestling circles for being a sloppy in-ring performer ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/12 "2025-10-08T16:38:11Z")
I got to see Willie Nelson and Kris Kristofferson (on one of the free stages at Summerfest). Told my kid “Damn! These guys aren’t worrying about image or technique, hell, they don’t care if their guitars are in tune, they’re just emoting!” ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/13 "2025-10-08T16:40:46Z")
They’re also both the best examples of real non-singers, both only have their own style of stumbling through the tunes without any range, but it always sounds charming. Dylan, heck, even Lou Reed, could sing rings around them. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/14 "2025-10-08T16:55:38Z")
A friend of mine who saw Willie in concert said he had a weird habit of leaning way into and then away from the mic, so half the lyrics were inaudible and the other half were deafening. (“_mumble_ **ROAD AGAIN!!!** _mumble mumble mumble mumble_ **ROAD AGAIN!!!** ”) ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/15 "2025-10-08T18:13:37Z")
I would put Dan Brown in this category. He’s not a very good writer. Every time I read one of his books, I keep getting stuck on how he really needs an editor (for example, he really loves to say characters “felt” things, instead of showing them doing the feeling). But the man can tell a story! I used to lump him in the same category as E. L. James (_Fifty Shades_) - but then I picked up _The Da Vinci Code_ on a 99-cent BookBub deal and read it, and… _liked_ it. Surprised the hell out of me! I don’t have high expectations for books to be literarily amazing - in fact, too much literary navel-gazing bores me and makes me put the book down. What I want is a good, compelling story that will keep me turning pages and entertain me. For me, Brown succeeds at that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/16 "2025-10-08T23:35:28Z")
Is this only for performers? Because both Randal Munroe (XKCD) and Rich Berlew (Order of the Stick) can do some pretty great things with stick figures. ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/17 "2025-10-08T23:51:19Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Two words…Keith. Moon. Interestingly enough, I was listening to an interview recently with an engineer who worked quite a bit with Keith Moon. He said there was a song where they needed to use a click track (metronome). The engineer said he was very nervous about whether Moon could do it or not. He said they did 3 or 4 takes and every single note that Moon played was exactly with the click track. Moon demonstrated absolutely perfect timing despite his reputation for being sloppy. I found that to be remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![DaveUnknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@DaveUnknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveUnknown)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/18 "2025-10-08T23:55:05Z")
That was the rick beato interview w/ glyn johns ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/19 "2025-10-08T23:56:03Z")
Yep, that’s the one! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779/20 "2025-10-09T00:39:15Z")
Louis Armstrong’s gravelly voice made a fuzzy shape in sonic space, but if you listen closely, at the center of that sonic fuzzball, he hit every note perfectly in tune. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-with-sloppy-technique-but-great-artistry/1023779.md?page=2)