# Arturo's open letter to Lynn, et al
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 10, 2001, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608 "2001-10-10T17:38:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/101 "2001-10-13T20:31:16Z")
Bite me, Art. I could barely _read_ your read your response.
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### Author:  [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/102 "2001-10-13T20:37:40Z")
Bite me, Art. I could barely _read_ your read your response.
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### Author:  [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/103 "2001-10-13T20:42:32Z")
Oh, and to follow up MINTY’s point:
When all we know about you is what you write, and the only way we can form an opinion about you is through what you write and how you write it, it is in your best interest to present your opinions in a form that is readable and not a lot of work to get through. One big honkin’ stream of consciousness block is not the way to do it. If you continue to post in that manner, you will find that many people will not bother to read your posts, since it is tiresome to have to wade through miles and miles of unbroken text. So if you insist on shedding the light of your intelligence on us little people, you might at least do so in a way that is easy to read.
You would receive the same critique, BTW, if you were the type who dispensed with common capitalizations, or who spelled atrociously, or who otherwise disregarded the conventions of the written word. This is not some Board foible; it is merely recognition of the fact that if your only means of communication is through writing, it is incumbent upon you to write legibly and well.
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### Author:  [@ArturoBandini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArturoBandini)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/104 "2001-10-13T20:57:24Z")
The difference, Jodi, is that you explained it in a rational (and actually helpful) manner and minty tossed off a flippant comment. Personally, though, I can read lines of text like that all day. Go figure.
As for your other post, I can’t even begin to fathom your problem. I will say, though, that i never have considered myself to be oh-so-eloquent and intelligent. I was saying tht I would try to STRIVE for eloquence and intelligence, as should everyone.
As for “not being invited”: I take it that YOU were invited? You were here first, so you matter and I don’t. That’s cool. Hope that goes well for you.
As I said, I’m sure the stigma will remain. You think I’m an asshole and probably blame me for killing your dog. I’ll just go sit at the dorkwad table and eat my lunch all by myself.
See…I’m getting used to being here already!
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### Author:  [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/105 "2001-10-13T21:02:42Z")
::Yawn::
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### Author:  [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/106 "2001-10-13T21:05:34Z")
Goodness, a flippant comment in the Pit. I am shocked at my own behavior, and feel I must apologize profusely. I therefore apologize to the self-obsessed purveyor of so much useless verbiage. Did I hurt your feelings? We wouldn’t want anything like that to happen after you crashed the party and started proclaiming how much you disliked everybody here.
[sub]'Course, what I should be apologizing for is the double post and the terrible lack of proofreading.
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### Author:  [@ArturoBandini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArturoBandini)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/107 "2001-10-13T21:13:34Z")
Ah, the pit. As has been stated by others, this is the only place that complaints can be filed, no matter how calm or rational they are. They get stuck in the middle of discussions like, “GODDAMMIT! MAY NEIGHBOR’S DOG JUST TOOK A CRAP ON MY LAWN!” and “FUCKING SPORTS ILLUSTRATED NEVER SENT ME MY FUCKING FOOTBALL PHONE, THOSE PRICKS!”
“I’m sorry, but if you want to dance in this club, you have to dance over there”
“But that’s a mosh pit! They’re all hitting each other! All I want to do is the Electric Slide.”
“Well, that’s the dance floor.”
“They’ll kill me!”
“Too bad for you.”
I don’t think I’ve been a prick. I’ve voiced an unpopular opinion and I stood behind it. Please try to re-read my second post before saddling your high horse.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/108 "2001-10-13T21:19:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ArturoBandini \*
> \*\*
> Fenris, congratulations. You have come close to being the first person to nearly offend me on this board. \*\*
Then my work here is done. :rolleyes:
If you’re unaware of the term “analogy” then I strongly suggest that you learn it. (Big hint: an analogy is NOT a comparison.) Apparently all those years of paying off college tuition _were_ wasted.
And your hints that somehow I’m uninformed about the Jewish culture/community are laughable. (“He don’t know me vewwy well, do he?”)
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> When I say that I do not care about your etiquette or jargon, my point is that the “culture” of internet conversations has created it’s own insular conventions that, if not abided by, result in…\*\*
…illegible posts.
You sound like a 12 year old who whines “But why do I have to be polite? What’s the point? It’s just words.”
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> This is the STRAIGHT DOPE message board, so forgive me if I hold it to my standards of what the Straight Dope is – which, I have said ad nauseam, is based on what I feel is extensive study of the Straight Dope oeuvre.
> \*\*
Aurtro: the “I’m more Cecil than thou” line is getting tedious. My Straight Dope credentials are easily as good as yours, and I say “You’re wrong”. I think this board upholds Cecil’s ideals pretty damned well. And I can support my argument: If Cecil really _didn’t_ think this board was upholding his standard, how long do you think it would last?
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> If I had studied ancient Greek civilization for 15+ years and stumbled upon “Gary’s Goin’ Greek Fantasyland” and found it sub par to everything I has learned, I would – IMHO – have the authority to say, “I think what some of you are doing is wrong and out of touch with what I have learned about Greek civilization throughout my years.” \*\*
Arturo, congratulations. You have come close to being the first person to nearly offend me on this board. The SDMB is nowhere near on par with a the Greek culture, and it’s actions were not akin to making derisive comments towards a culture which has existed for over thousands of years. Perhaps you regret the analogy, and that comparison is a prime example of self-importance. Your argument goes hand in hand with the tired, “Conform to my standards or I’ll hold my breath and/or whine.”
\*\*
> [@](#):
>
> Maybe I’ll pretend this is “Gary’s Goin’ Genius Message Board” and not at all affiliated with the Straight Dope.\*\*
Your real name is “Gary”, isn’t it? I can tell.
But tell ya what: put all that aside. I’ll listen to you as long as you start being precise. What _specific_ things would bring this board closer to the Cecilic ideals of which you seem to be the only arbiter? Be detailed. Give examples. “I think MPSIMS is anti-Cecil and should be abolished.”, “There should be more talk of the caloric count of semen in GQ”. “An ongoing GD should exist AT ALL TIMES about the best ways to remove aphids from pot-plants.”, “A ban on all Evil Bert threads must be enacted!” (I might support you in that one)
I don’t want vague comments like “Be nicer” or “Be more like Cecil”. Somehow you “I can’t fit in, so it must be YOUR fault”-types never get around to telling the other 1000 or so regular and semi-regular members what we have to do to reach your lofty goals of Cecilian perfection.
So tell me…how, exactly should this board change to suit you better?
Fenris
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### Author:  [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/109 "2001-10-13T21:34:15Z")
ARTURO –
> [@](#):
>
> As for your other post, I can’t even begin to fathom your problem.
If you have read my posts in this thread to date, and you “can’t even begin to fathom your problem,” then you have a reading comprehension problem that is probably beyond my ability to rectify. But allow me to attempt to spell it out again. This is my problem:
> [@](#):
>
> I have never been in a crowded room of human beings who act in the manner of message board posters. I have never met anyone so unflinchingly static or self-involved as some of these posters. . . . Like I said, I don’t know the etiquette regarding message boards, nor do I care. I know the etiquette of real conversations, which seem much more vibrant than what passes for knowledge on the SDMB.
> The Cecil Adams of almost 20 years ago was nothing like this flaccid banality that passes for intelligence now. . . . You have proven that the Straight Dope is no longer the amazing work it once was. . . .Now I find a whole “community” of fans and it turns out that I have so little in common with most of their petty concerns.
You come across as self-imporant and pompous. You offer criticism where none was required or invited. You insult those of us who post here because you don’t happen to like what we post, or how we post it, or because you think it can and should be done differently. You insult the Straight Dope, Cecil, and the Staff Reporters, because they don’t meet your high standards – as if they should care if they do – and you sigh disingenuously about how “sad” the decline in quality makes you. In short, you come across as a jerk.
> [@](#):
>
> As for “not being invited”: I take it that YOU were invited? You were here first, so you matter and I don’t. That’s cool. Hope that goes well for you.
The point is that no one _asked_ you to drop by. Being here is voluntary, get it? If you don’t like how things are done, you can just move on. Everyone is welcome, but those who show up and immediately start acting like over-critical asses are somewhat less welcome than others – for reasons that should be obvious.
> [@](#):
>
> As I said, I’m sure the stigma will remain. You think I’m an asshole and probably blame me for killing your dog. I’ll just go sit at the dorkwad table and eat my lunch all by myself.
Oh, poor unloved ARTURO! Going off alone to eat worms! It is a simple equation: Act like a jerk and you will be treated like a jerk. Criticize and insult those with whom you interact and chances are very good you will be criticized and insulted in turn.
If you want people to think you are something other than a self-important ass, then go forth and multiply posts in a non-ass manner. Add your expertise and opinions to subjects you know and care about. Ask question that interest you. But treat the hosts and the other guests with civility and respect. If you can’t manage that – and, to date,you have not – then don’t pretend to hurt surprise if you find that no one else is bothering to treat you with civility or respect either.
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### Author:  [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/110 "2001-10-13T21:40:34Z")
\*\*minty,[b/] get off your high horse.
::splort::
Please tell me I’m not the only one who found this remark hilarious.
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### Author:  [@DaveW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveW)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/111 "2001-10-13T21:41:10Z")
[sub]I should probably stay out of this, but…[/sub]
**Arturo** wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> . . .The rest of the time I have been reading. I think you consider such activity to be “lurking,” and perhaps you frown upon it. . .
Actually, lurking is _good_. It allows you to learn about the culture of this and other message boards before posting badly and making an ass of yourself.
> [@](#):
>
> . . .When I say that I do not care about your etiquette or jargon, my point is that the “culture” of internet conversations has created it’s own insular conventions that, if not abided by, result in lashings by some.
> . . .
> But the insular conventions of some netizens astounds me, and I cannot imagine these people attempting to abide by these rules in real world interactions. . .
Well, those two sentences appear to sum up the problem. Substitute, say, “France” for “Internet,” “French people” for “netizens,” and “American” for “real world,” and it pretty much paints a picture of an “Ugly American.” Someone who visits a foreign place, fails to understand the culture, and is surprised when the “natives” are rude or snobby (in response to what those natives see as rude and insulting behaviour from the tourist).
> [@](#):
>
> . . .I still stand behind all that I said, but dammit, I want to fight ignorance too.
You might consider starting with your own. Your “don’t know and don’t care” attitude regarding Internet culture is a good example of “willful ignorance” (the antithesis of everything Straight Dopian). See the above example for “lurking.”
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### Author:  [@ArturoBandini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArturoBandini)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/112 "2001-10-13T22:20:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jodi \*
> But treat the hosts and the other guests with civility and respect. If you can’t manage that – and, to date,you have not – then don’t pretend to hurt surprise if you find that no one else is bothering to treat you with civility or respect either.
Oh, so I take it you’ve read my posts in GQ and CS? The ones where I offered helpful advice about being a DJ, auto repairs, etc, as mentioned in my second post in this thread? I certainly don’t recall being rude at all. But, please, take a look and see if I’m wrong. Let me know. I really do accept criticism gladly.
I tried to say that yes, I can be impulsive and yes, I made a generalization. Again, re-read my second post before making any more comments.
You may now flame amongst yourselves.
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### Author:  [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/113 "2001-10-13T22:53:19Z")
I think I’ve got the hang of it now.
I can offer helpful advice in one thread, and slam the members and board in another, and it’ll be okay.
Check.
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### Author:  [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arturos-open-letter-to-lynn-et-al/86608/114 "2001-10-13T23:03:06Z")
ARTURO –
> [@](#):
>
> Oh, so I take it you’ve read my posts in GQ and CS? The ones where I offered helpful advice about being a DJ, auto repairs, etc, as mentioned in my second post in this thread? I certainly don’t recall being rude at all. But, please, take a look and see if I’m wrong. Let me know. I really do accept criticism gladly.
I have read your posts here and in ATMB. I don’t know if I’ve seen any others of yours, and life’s too short to do a search when I frankly don’t care about the results. If your point is that you’re only _occasionally_ a great big insulting jerk, I’ll take your word for it – but I must say that when you do it, you do it up right.
> [@](#):
>
> I tried to say that yes, I can be impulsive and yes, I made a generalization. Again, re-read my second post before making any more comments.
You were more than impulsive and generalizing; you were insulting and patronizing, and IMO if you want to hang around with the posters you previously informed were beneath you, then you ought to apologize. If words of apology just stick too much to come out – and I know from personal experience that they can – then you ought to go post in other forums, on other topics, and allow the memory of your insulting and patronizing behavior to fade and die. You certainly shouldn’t continue to attempt to defend your behavior in the same thread where the very worst example of that behavior appears. All IMO, of course.
I would also explain that I am not and was not put out with you personally so much as I was and am fed up with the constant carping by many voices about how things suck around here. If you have lurked as much as you claim, you ought to know how common such petulant “the mods suck, this board sucks, you all suck” threads are. They have been come so common – and IMO are so unfair, especially to the mods, who do their not-insubstantial work for free – that they bug the absolute shit out of me. I would have just as readily turned my flamethrower on another poster (especially a new one) posting the same sentiments. So it’s not personal. I don’t know you well enough for it to be personal.
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