# As a Centrist - This is where the far left loses me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917 "2020-06-02T12:09:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/41 "2020-06-02T20:44:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > “yes, this was a terrible incident and it’s terrible how black people, especially black men, have been treated by the police.” > [@Slash1972](#): > > It’s amazing how hard people find this to say. Can _you_ say it three times fast? “yes, this was a terrible incident and it’s terrible how black people, especially black men, have been treated by the police.” “this was an incident and terrible black people have been treated by the police.” “All Lives Matter!” Grrrrrr. almost had it. > [@blindboyard](#): > > The problem is that American police kill over a thousand people a year. Most of those people are white. > > SO I think your analogy is only apposite if you’re calling the fire brigade when the entire city is burning to the ground alongside your own house. Right, and they are putting out your neighbor’s house, but not yours. As they pack up to leave, you say, “Hey my house matters!.” They say, “Everyone’s house matters.” > [@Velocity](#): > > It’s possible for someone to say All Lives Matter in a way that isn’t malicious. Maybe ignorant, but not malicious. Yes, but as a public announcer, you’d think that he wasn’t hiding under a rock. > [@Velocity](#): > > Furthermore, suppose that John Doe the activist says “Black Lives Matter” in a BLM March. No problem. > > Then suppose he says “Hispanic Lives Matter” in a march in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants. No problem. > > Then he says “Arab Lives Matter” in a march in support of civilians getting killed by drones in Yemen. > > Then he says “Gay Lives Matter” in a march for LGBT . > > Then…well, you get my drift. He could say Asian Lives Matter, Native American Lives Matter, etc. and nobody would object to him saying that as long as it was in that context…_even though the net cumulative effect of saying black, Hispanic, Arab, Asian, etc. lives matter is ultimately the same as saying All Lives Matter._ Each one of those is talking about a specific group of people and addressing their concerns. > [@](#): > > It’s only when people say ALM in a specific people category context that people get angry. That is because that is dismissing the concerns of the individual groups. > [@Velocity](#): > > It may be ridiculous, but it’s also a cunning trap, and I think many liberals (not you, of course, but others) fail to realize that publicly punishing people who say “all lives matter” walks right into that trap. In fact, every time someone is slammed in public for saying All Lives Matter, Trump probably picks up 2 or 3 votes somewhere. Possible you are correct, and it is true that the right has been good at fanning racism and dishonest rhetoric for quite some time, and are quite cunning and good at it. It actually is pretty genius. You attack a minority. I defend that minority. Then you play the victim and pretend that my defense of your attack was my aggression. (royal you) It’s called playing the reffs, and when it works, it is effective. Just don’t pretend that it is anything but reprehensible and motivated by hate. > [@Velocity](#): > > Sure. As Ann Hedonia said, that’s the whole purpose of the trap. It’s meant to sound perfectly reasonable to someone who doesn’t really understand the phrase’s subtext, but is designed to provoke a public backlash from progressives who do understand it - thus making the progressives appear unreasonable. > > You know how some abusers like to do psychological abuse by provoking their partner (or family member) in a way that leads to a public outburst, then immediately play victim so as to garner outsider sympathy? Somewhat similar dynamic at play. By making liberals rage against “all lives matter”, conservatives who say ALM can appear to be the reasonable ones to an unwitting spectator. Right, as we have said on many occasions, the right are much like serial abusers. And, given the fact that it doesn’t matter who responds, as long as anyone at all does, you can count on getting the chance to play the victim. So, you leave us with two choices. Defend those you attack and then watch as you play the victim, or not defend those you attack and watch you harm them. (royal you) It’s pretty hateful, and it is a terrible way to build a consensus of the governed, but that matter little to those who are willing to burn the world, so long as they get to rule the ashes. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/42 "2020-06-02T20:46:04Z")
Also, what’s up with “Gay Pride Month”? Shouldn’t we have “Everybody Pride All The Time”? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/43 "2020-06-02T20:54:11Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I don’t think the announcer meant it in a racist way at all. I don’t know the announcer’s own personal views, but there’s no excuse for anyone in this society nowadays—especially not someone with a career in public communications of any kind—not understanding that the _“All Lives Matter”_ slogan is now a standard dodge to **avoid expressing support for anti-racist principles**. _“Black Lives Matter”_ is an explicitly anti-racist slogan. **If you sincerely believe that All Lives Matter, then you should have no problem at all with agreeing that Black Lives Matter, because Black Lives are obviously part of All Lives.** But people who invoke the _“All Lives Matter”_ deflection seem to be very invested in how to evade acknowledging that Black Lives Matter. They might not deliberately endorse the openly racist sentiment that _“Black Lives DON’T Matter”_, but for some reason they are upset about being expected to express support for the anti-racist sentiment that _“Black Lives DO Matter”_. In the process, they’re refusing to openly recognize the damage that’s being done specifically to black people in this country for specifically racist reasons, and they’re trying to disguise their unwillingness to openly oppose that racism by taking refuge in a superficially egalitarian alternative. But they are no longer fooling anyone except themselves. > [@Dark Sponge](#): > > It seems like the country may be moving toward another round of McCarthyism, this time hosted by the left instead of the right. Nonsense. If you were making this kind of complaint about people being criticized for refusing to endorse the position _“ONLY Black Lives Matter”_, you might have a point. But that’s not what BLM is about. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/44 "2020-06-02T20:56:38Z")
Yes, it’s possible for a person to say “all lives matter” out of ignorance of the context, rather than out of actual racism. It’s possible that that’s what happened in this case (how probably, I’m not in a position to say, but it’s possible). But if an announcer for a mostly-black organization is that ignorant of the context, then that’s professional incompetence, and he should be fired for that reason. So we don’t need to figure out his motivations, because either way, it leads to the same conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/45 "2020-06-02T21:06:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This is interesting. So, some people who are still somehow on the fence hear someone chastised for saying “all lives matter” and their thought process is “Some liberal called out a guy for saying ‘all lives matter’. That’s it! I’m voting for Trump!” > > Does that sum it up? An accurate summary from the conservative side is “some liberal called out a guy for saying ‘all lives matter’. This is just another example of how liberals / the far left have taken political correctness too far”. “This is just another thing in the long list of things that is wrong with the left.” In and of itself nobody is going to change their vote based on that, and in a perfect world nobody would give such a crumby and one-sided argument any weight. But I can tell that for some people this sort of thing is just another straw on the camel’s back. Me personally, I have no issue remembering that All Lives Matter is a sort of anti-slogan for Black Lives Matter, just like Anti-Life is an anti-slogan for Pro-Life. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/46 "2020-06-02T21:51:40Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > In and of itself nobody is going to change their vote based on that, and in a perfect world nobody would give such a crumby and one-sided argument any weight. But I can tell that for some people this sort of thing is just another straw on the camel’s back. > ~Max Some people get upset over a group of fellow Americans being systematically discriminated against, demonized, tormented and dehumanized. And some people get upset about being asked not to use problematic and harmful language. Fine people on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/47 "2020-06-02T22:04:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Some people get upset over a group of fellow Americans being systematically discriminated against, demonized, tormented and dehumanized. > > And some people get upset about being asked not to use problematic and harmful language. > > Fine people on both sides. We are both well aware that people in the latter group have no right whining to people in the former group. Nevertheless, every vote has equal weight. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/48 "2020-06-02T22:50:26Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > just another straw on the camel’s back. > ~Max One cannot say that phrase without empathy. The straw just before the “All lives matter” one and the one right after, if god allows it, I’d be really interested in those particulars. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/49 "2020-06-02T23:09:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Now, there are some conservatives who genuinely espouse ALM for ALM’s sake without any malice, but that’s different. Are you talking about conservatives who’ve given it more than five minutes’ thought? I would assume so, because to ‘genuinely espouse’ something implies a bit of understanding of and psychological investment in it. I don’t believe more than a trivial number of such people exist. Now, people who aren’t particularly political, who don’t get in arguments on Twitter or wherever, and who haven’t given it really any thought at all - yes, I’m sure there are people like that who say ALM without malice. But they aren’t _espousing_ it in any meaningful way; they’re just saying it because it makes superficial sense, then forgetting about it until the next time. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/50 "2020-06-03T00:13:14Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Do some people read “save the rainforest” and assume that means “fuck all other forest”? Yes, Republicans do this all the time. If Obama had attempted to pass “Puppies are cute” legislation the Republicans would have said “Obama calls all kittens ugly!” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/51 "2020-06-03T00:44:27Z")
All lives matter was a response to BLM. It was explained very well upthread. It can’t be said outside of that context unless a person wanders onto the scene as a blank slate, and would choose to say something that is meaningless to people they don’t even know. When that has happened what did the person say to explain it? Have any of them been interviewed? I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/52 "2020-06-03T01:55:16Z")
If that announcer guy wasn’t meaning to offend, how did he happen upon the exact phrase that offends? He specifically said “all lives matter”, not “every life matters”, not “all lives are equal before God”, not “I treasure every life.” I mean, what are the odds?? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/53 "2020-06-03T02:29:01Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If that announcer guy wasn’t meaning to offend, how did he happen upon the exact phrase that offends? He specifically said “all lives matter”, not “every life matters”, not “all lives are equal before God”, not “I treasure every life.” I mean, what are the odds?? According to some news articles that guy was also criticized in the past for “defending disgraced former Clippers owner Donald Sterling, saying that Sterling couldn’t be racist because he employed black people” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/54 "2020-06-03T02:39:56Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If that announcer guy wasn’t meaning to offend, how did he happen upon the exact phrase that offends? He specifically said “all lives matter”, not “every life matters”, not “all lives are equal before God”, not “I treasure every life.” Even those paraphrases would come across as somewhat insensitive given the context. I mean, if someone asks you what you think about a new hashtag #MournCovidDeaths for grieving families of COVID victims to share their sorrow and campaign for better public health measures, would you come back with an alternative hashtag like #MournAllDeaths, or #MournEveryDeath? No, that would be kind of a jerk move because it would seem as though you’re dismissing the COVID crisis as something unworthy of particular attention. You’d be implying that these deaths are no more concerning or abnormal than any other death, and by extension that it’s okay to just go on ignoring the cause of them. That’s the same message that gets sent when people “correct” the slogan _“Black Lives Matter”_ to any kind of more general phrase that refuses to acknowledge the specific harms to black lives that are being caused by racist injustice. _“All Lives Matter”_ or some paraphrase of it may superficially look egalitarian and inclusive. But as a response to _“Black Lives Matter”_ it’s basically just saying _“I intend to go on ignoring the problem of racist injustice directed at harming black lives in particular, by pretending that my compassion is bigger than yours. La la la la!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/55 "2020-06-03T04:07:18Z")
Twitter is a cancerous growth up the anus of society. I can’t tell you how much I fucking hate every goddamn thing about Twitter. It’s a dogshit form of “communication” that condenses ideas down to the lowest common denominator and seemingly does nothing but spread fucking PETTY, bullshit, drama. Petty bullshit! I fucking hate everything about it, I have never used it my life, I WILL never use it in my life. I thought it was bullshit the instant it became popular, and immediately swore that I would never, ever use it. It’s cancer. Of fucking course we now have a president who uses it as his primary form of addressing the public. Of fucking course. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/56 "2020-06-03T05:29:32Z")
When one says “black lives matter”, it means something – specifically, “_blacks are being treated as though their lives do not matter, and this needs to stop_”. That is literally what the 3-word statement means. Now plug “all” in there, in place of “black” and you get a meaningless statement. The only way that “all lives matter” can work is if “matter” is on a continuum. “Black lives matter” makes sense when “matter” is binary, but for “all” lives, “matter” can only be meaningful if it is non-binary. Which leads to a dark place. If all lives matter, and that is something other than an empty statement, then some lives matter less or more than others. Which leads right back around to why “black live matter” arose in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/57 "2020-06-03T10:45:51Z")
Black Lives Matter originated as a [message to African-Americans.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter) > [@](#): > > In the summer of 2013, after George Zimmerman’s acquittal for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, the movement began with the hashtag #BlackLivesMatter.[20] The movement was co-founded by three black community organizers: Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi.[21][22] Garza, Cullors and Tometi met through “Black Organizing for Leadership & Dignity” (BOLD), a national organization that trains community organizers.[14] They began to question how they were going to respond to what they saw as the devaluation of black lives after Zimmerman’s acquittal. Garza wrote a Facebook post titled “A Love Note to Black People” in which she said: “Our Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter”. Cullors replied: “#BlackLivesMatter”. Tometi then added her support, and Black Lives Matter was born as an online campaign.[14] ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/58 "2020-06-03T11:30:37Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > This was a really good analogy that framed the situation well, thanks! > > While I still find that his tweet response was genuinely innocent and innocuous of any racism, I do see the counter point. > > I guess I am just frustrated at all the tribalism in our politics and society at large. > > While I see the George Floyd video showing no active racism, just a bad cop and an abhorrent human, we have no way of knowing what was in his heart at that moment. > > I would like to think that ANY human killed like that would cause outrage, but I must remember that I have not walked in the shoes of our African American brothers and sisters. And a thread helps the world be a tiny bit better?!? Can it be? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/59 "2020-06-03T11:34:27Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Twitter is a cancerous growth up the anus of society. I can’t tell you how much I fucking hate every goddamn thing about Twitter. It’s a dogshit form of “communication” that condenses ideas down to the lowest common denominator and seemingly does nothing but spread fucking PETTY, bullshit, drama. Petty bullshit! I fucking hate everything about it, I have never used it my life, I WILL never use it in my life. I thought it was bullshit the instant it became popular, and immediately swore that I would never, ever use it. It’s cancer. > > Of fucking course we now have a president who uses it as his primary form of addressing the public. Of fucking course. You’ve never used it, but you hate everything about it. Sounds like the sort of ignorance this place exists to fight, so: Like almost anything else, it’s in the way that you use it. I use my Twitter account basically to follow the Twitter streams of a handful of really smart people, and occasionally toss a word in edgewise. I don’t get into Twitter fights - I hardly ever _see_ a Twitter fight - but I’ve learned a great deal that I wouldn’t have known otherwise. Yes, I’m sure that there’s abundant drama and petty bullshit on Twitter. But (a) given how I use it, it’s something I hear about from off-Twitter sources, not something I encounter on Twitter, and (b) there’s a fair amount of drama and petty bullshit on the Dope, too, but I’m still here after 21 years, so I’m clearly getting something out of it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/60 "2020-06-03T11:35:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Even those paraphrases would come across as somewhat insensitive given the context. I mean, if someone asks you what you think about a new hashtag #MournCovidDeaths for grieving families of COVID victims to share their sorrow and campaign for better public health measures, would you come back with an alternative hashtag like #MournAllDeaths, or #MournEveryDeath? > > No, that would be kind of a jerk move because it would seem as though you’re dismissing the COVID crisis as something unworthy of particular attention. You’d be implying that these deaths are no more concerning or abnormal than any other death, and by extension that it’s okay to just go on ignoring the cause of them. That’s the same message that gets sent when people “correct” the slogan _“Black Lives Matter”_ to any kind of more general phrase that refuses to acknowledge the specific harms to black lives that are being caused by racist injustice. > > _“All Lives Matter”_ or some paraphrase of it may superficially look egalitarian and inclusive. But as a response to _“Black Lives Matter”_ it’s basically just saying _“I intend to go on ignoring the problem of racist injustice directed at harming black lives in particular, by pretending that my compassion is bigger than yours. La la la la!”_ I agree with you. He should have said something like, “yes, they do. And, what happened to Floyd and to black men across the nation throughout our history is a travesty.” However, the “all lives matter” phrase is specifically offensive and used by bigots and throwbacks as an answer to “black lives matter”. So, it’s not like he isn’t steeped in the messaging of bigots and throwbacks. The guy is either racist, clueless, or tone deaf, and a week suspension is the very least for someone who represents a basketball team. Having a tone deaf color commentator is a terrible idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917.md?page=4)