# As a Centrist - This is where the far left loses me **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 2, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917 "2020-06-02T12:09:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/61 "2020-06-03T12:14:56Z")
As opposed to people who think that all the protesters are rioters and should be more polite: they’re color deaf tone commentators. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/62 "2020-06-03T12:47:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It may be ridiculous, but it’s also a cunning trap, and I think many liberals (not you, of course, but others) fail to realize that publicly punishing people who say “all lives matter” walks right into that trap. In fact, every time someone is slammed in public for saying All Lives Matter, Trump probably picks up 2 or 3 votes somewhere. I kind of feel like the sort of people who feel the need to retort “All Lives Matter” are already leaning towards Trump. > [@blindboyard](#): > > The problem is that American police kill over a thousand people a year. Most of those people are white. > > SO I think your analogy is only apposite if you’re calling the fire brigade when the entire city is burning to the ground alongside your own house. I think it’s more like the fire department puts out fires all over the city…then decides to light yours on fire because you’re black. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/63 "2020-06-03T14:19:16Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > When one says “black lives matter”, it means something – specifically, “_blacks are being treated as though their lives do not matter, and this needs to stop_”. That is literally what the 3-word statement means. Now plug “all” in there, in place of “black” and you get a meaningless statement. > > The only way that “all lives matter” can work is if “matter” is on a continuum. “Black lives matter” makes sense when “matter” is binary, but for “all” lives, “matter” can only be meaningful if it is non-binary. > > Which leads to a dark place. If all lives matter, and that is something other than an empty statement, then some lives matter less or more than others. Which leads right back around to why “black live matter” arose in the first place. If it had not already gained context from it being used as a foil to Black Lives Matter, then it actually would be a useful retort to those who refuse to wear masks or follow other social distancing guidelines because _they_ are not afraid of the 'Rona. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’ve never used it, but you hate everything about it. Sounds like the sort of ignorance this place exists to fight, so: > > Like almost anything else, it’s in the way that you use it. I use my Twitter account basically to follow the Twitter streams of a handful of really smart people, and occasionally toss a word in edgewise. I don’t get into Twitter fights - I hardly ever _see_ a Twitter fight - but I’ve learned a great deal that I wouldn’t have known otherwise. > > Yes, I’m sure that there’s abundant drama and petty bullshit on Twitter. But (a) given how I use it, it’s something I hear about from off-Twitter sources, not something I encounter on Twitter, and (b) there’s a fair amount of drama and petty bullshit on the Dope, too, but I’m still here after 21 years, so I’m clearly getting something out of it anyway. I post and browse pictures of dogs on Twitter. As you say, it’s all in how you use it. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/64 "2020-06-03T15:33:28Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > It does not help the cause of racism in my opinion. Your opinion is correct. Compare it to, e.g. “I have a dream.” The word “dream” has all kinds of positive, hopeful connotations. You think of hope, optimism, a comfortable night’s sleep, childhood, etc. The phrase invites you to ask what the dream is. It invites you to think about your own dreams. And even if you don’t like someone else’s dream, well, at a minimum you aren’t _threatened_ by it. It’s moving, inspiring, _ **persuasive** _ rhetoric. MLK understood language and psychology, and used them well. This is why he changed the country forever, and has a holiday named for them. BLM largely doesn’t understand these things, and this is why they’ve accomplished nothing, and never will. Communications 101 is that the the message you send is not necessarily the message that is received, and that in the end, the latter is what matters. Marketing 101 is that if you have to constantly explain to your customers what your slogan really means, your slogan sucks. A slogan like BLM is inherently divisive. If you doubt that, walk through a BLM march with a sign saying “white people are valuable.” Or through a feminist march with one saying “Men are human beings,” or through a political rally with a sign saying “[opposite party] are good people.” Better yet, don’t because you might well get you ass kicked. Slogans are like those inherently offensive, because they invite people to make the inference that “non-whites are not valuable,” etc, and some of them inevitably will. This is common sense language usage. Saying “well, you have to understand the context, see, and you, the random person walking by, need to be educated …” is just a longwinded way of saying “we couldn’t write a good slogan.” Consider how much it could have been improved by simply changing it to “Black Lives Matter Too.” Then nobody takes any kind of inference, and instead they’re invited in for dialogue: “of course black lives matter, too? What makes you think otherwise? What’s the problem you’re having?” It’s positive and inclusive, and it invites people to consider the issue without having to work through what all the implications are and aren’t. Or even better, they could have just co-opted “All lives matter.” Nobody can possibly object to it, and again, it invites people to ask questions and be pulled in and be persuaded instead of feeling alienated. Moreover, to the extent the movement is focused on police violence, embracing ALM would give them a much easier time building a real coalition to change policing tactics. There are plenty of videos of non-blacks being shot by police; Fox isn’t going to show cops gunning down Daniel Shaver or Richard Ramirez or any number of others because they make cops look bad. But CNN isn’t going to show them because they aren’t black. 3/4 of police shootings are non-blacks. If changing police tactics is the real goal, you could get 3x the media coverage, 3x the public awareness, just by saying ALM, and including everyone. If it’s true that police are disproprotionately prone to shooting blacks, reducing all police shootings would almost necessarily disproprotionately benefit blacks. But outside of a few libertarian circles, there’s not much support for general police reform across the board. And likely won’t be so long as the issue is racialized. Unfortunately, while I think the large majority of BLM protesters mean well and want positive change, it’s hasn’t accomplished anything much yet and is not likely to. Too many people are invested in the idea that venting their emotions is always good and that “those people” aren’t worth persuading. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/65 "2020-06-03T16:06:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, but as a public announcer, you’d think that he wasn’t hiding under a rock. People that follow the news and public events closely often overestimate how many, many people do NOT follow the news and do not care about politics. I met a guy in 2016 that 1) knew who Trump was from his TV show 2) did not know Trump was even running for president until a month before the general election. He was amazed when I explained to him that non-politicians were even allowed to pursue public office. It’s entirely plausible that a 60 or 70 year old basketball announcer is not up on all the arguments and counterarguments and the nuances and what slogans are supposed to imply and what they’re not. My mother, who is no news maven. has the exact same reaction: “of course black lives matter, all lives do.” She volunteer tutors illiterate hispanic kids, and she voted for Obama in 2008. That’s the kind of person (and voter) that could be persuaded, but is being alienated instead. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/66 "2020-06-03T16:16:36Z")
OK, so it wasn’t the best slogan possible. That doesn’t say anything about how just the cause was, and orators as skilled as Reverend King are hard to come by. Really, the problem with “All Lives Matter” starts with the fact that it’s a rebuttal to “Black Lives Matter”… but why does that statement even need a rebuttal? If you truly thought that all lives matter, then when someone told you “Black Lives Matter”, you’d answer “Amen, brother”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/67 "2020-06-03T16:33:28Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Compare it to, e.g. “I have a dream.” The word “dream” has all kinds of positive, hopeful connotations. You think of hope, optimism, a comfortable night’s sleep, childhood, etc. The phrase invites you to ask what the dream is. It invites you to think about your own dreams. And even if you don’t like someone else’s dream, well, at a minimum you aren’t _threatened_ by it. It’s moving, inspiring, _ **persuasive** _ rhetoric. You remember what happened to MLK, right? > [@](#): > > People that follow the news and public events closely often overestimate how many, many people do NOT follow the news and do not care about politics. > > I met a guy in 2016 that 1) knew who Trump was from his TV show 2) did not know Trump was even running for president until a month before the general election. He was amazed when I explained to him that non-politicians were even allowed to pursue public office. > > It’s entirely plausible that a 60 or 70 year old basketball announcer is not up on all the arguments and counterarguments and the nuances and what slogans are supposed to imply and what they’re not. I don’t think that’s particularly plausible, but even if he were genuinely ignorant, that’s absolutely no excuse. He’s a public figure and as such, a representative of his employer. It’s part of his job to understand how his statements and presentation come across to his audience. If he can’t keep up with current events sufficiently to avoid accidentally looking like a racist, he’s not competent to hold the position he has. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/68 "2020-06-03T16:52:17Z")
> [@furt](#): > > A slogan like BLM is inherently divisive. :dubious: :dubious: It’s only “divisive” between people who agree that black lives matter and people for whom black lives **don’t** really matter. When those divisions become apparent, it’s not BLM’s fault for pointing it out. > [@furt](#): > > If you doubt that, walk through a BLM march with a sign saying “white people are valuable.” Or through a feminist march with one saying “Men are human beings” This is a silly argument whose fundamental illogic has been explained several times in this thread already. What is “divisive” in your scenarios is not the initial assertion that _“Black Lives Matter”_ (or “women matter”, in the case of the feminist march), but the counterprotestor’s implied message _ **“No, your cause DOESN’T actually matter, pay attention to THIS ‘cause’ instead”** _. US culture, like many or most other cultures worldwide, is already entirely, overwhelmingly invested in the notions that _“white people are valuable”_ and _“men are human beings”_. When you try to hijack a protest on behalf of the under-recognized humanity of the oppressed, in order to bray about **the thoroughly established and unquestioned humanity of the _non_-oppressed** , the problem is you being an egotistical insensitive idiot, not the protestors being inherently “divisive”. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/69 "2020-06-03T17:01:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so it wasn’t the best slogan possible. That doesn’t say anything about how just the cause was, and orators as skilled as Reverend King are hard to come by. True, and I don’t blame anyone for for coming up with that on the spot. But they’ve had years to think it over, consult with professional political and marketing people, and have stuck with it. It’s dumb and counterproductive. > [@](#): > > Really, the problem with “All Lives Matter” starts with the fact that it’s a rebuttal to “Black Lives Matter”… but why does that statement even need a rebuttal? And there’s the problem. You’re assuming it’s a rebuttal, and not an _agreement._ Do you really think a large portion of the population consciously thinks “No, black lives DON’T matter?” Of course not. The obvious answer from any worthwhile human is “Yes, of course black lives matter, _because_ all lives matter.” And yet, that’s the precise goodhearted sentiment that gets denounced as “White Supremacy,” instead of the starting point of a productive conversation. Again – if someone was carrying a sign saying “White people are inherently valuable,” would you not look at them askance? Would you regard someone saying “yes, white people have inherent value, everyone does” as an anti-white bigot? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think you would. In fact, we don’t need to ask how people respond to that message: look at what happens when “it’s okay to be white” signs get posted. They are responded to like they were Klan flyers, because people take offense what they think might be implied. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/70 "2020-06-03T17:03:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You remember what happened to MLK, right? Well, he changed the world according to the meme floating around. Changed it so hard we’re still fighting for the same things over fifty years later. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/71 "2020-06-03T17:09:52Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Consider how much it could have been improved by simply changing it to “Black Lives Matter Too.” That is awkward, though. You get better flow and cadence with “ **B** lack **L** ives **A** lso **M** atter”. However, … ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/72 "2020-06-03T17:18:32Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Well, he changed the world according to the meme floating around. Changed it so hard we’re still fighting for the same things over fifty years later. So much ignorance, so little time. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/73 "2020-06-03T17:20:43Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Consider how much it could have been improved by simply changing it to “Black Lives Matter Too.” Then nobody takes any kind of inference, and instead they’re invited in for dialogue: “of course black lives matter, too? What makes you think otherwise? What’s the problem you’re having?” It’s positive and inclusive, and it invites people to consider the issue without having to work through what all the implications are and aren’t. Uh-huh, right. That’s why, for example, all those [demonstrators at last month’s rally to protect healthcare for veterans](https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/nurses-and-veterans-rally-washington-dc-protect-veterans-health-care-va) were holding signs saying _“VA NURSES DESERVE RESPECT **TOO** ”_ and _“QUALITY CARE FOR VETERANS **TOO** ”_. You know, so that they wouldn’t accidentally hurt the fee-fees of non-nurses and non-veterans by not being “positive and inclusive” enough in demonstrating for their own specific cause. Oh wait, **no they fucking weren’t**. Because non-nurses and non-veterans aren’t such idiotically oversensitive snowflakes that they get all upset at the supposed “implications” of protests in favor of nurses and/or veterans that don’t explicitly acknowledge the equal importance of non-nurses and non-veterans. Similarly, non-bees manage not to feel “excluded” or “unvalued” because [the protest signs at a “Save the Bees” demonstration](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/video/2013/apr/27/march-of-the-beekeepers-protest-pesticides-video) say _“SAVE THE BEES”_ instead of _“SAVE THE BEES **TOO** ”_. In fact, for almost every political cause, people who are not the cause’s core constituency manage to endure the agonizing “exclusion” of not having their own value explicitly acknowledged in the cause’s slogans. But for _some_ reason or other, there sure are a metric shitload of non-black folks in the US who are just too fragile to condone the existence of “Save the Black People” demonstrations unless the demonstrators go out of their way to explicitly reassure said non-black folks that _yes, dear, you have value too!_ Pathetic twerps. (Well, actually, they tend to be not so much pathetic as racist, but that’s pathetic in its own way.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/74 "2020-06-03T17:25:16Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The obvious answer from any worthwhile human is “Yes, of course black lives matter, _because_ all lives matter.” And yet, that’s the precise goodhearted sentiment that gets denounced as “White Supremacy,” instead of the starting point of a productive conversation. Nonsense. When people actually say “Yes, of course black lives matter, because all lives matter”, that doesn’t get denounced as white supremacy. What’s getting denounced is the racist, or racist-accommodating, _ **refusal to acknowledge the first part of the sentiment** _. When you insist on responding to the claim “black lives matter” not by agreeing with it but by deflecting it to a more general statement, what you’re revealing there is neither “goodhearted” nor “the starting point of a productive conversation”. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/75 "2020-06-03T17:32:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Pathetic twerps. This is sure to win them over. Indulging resentment gives a pretty good dopamine hit, but it’s seldom leads to anything productive. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/76 "2020-06-03T17:32:53Z")
> [@furt](#): > > People that follow the news and public events closely often overestimate how many, many people do NOT follow the news and do not care about politics. No, I talk to lots and lots of people in the course of a day, and I do know that most people only know the most superficial headlines and soundbites. I do argue that this is a bit of a problem, people need to be engaged in their democracy in order for it to work. > [@](#): > > I met a guy in 2016 that 1) knew who Trump was from his TV show 2) did not know Trump was even running for president until a month before the general election. He was amazed when I explained to him that non-politicians were even allowed to pursue public office. I know a person that didn’t understand why Obama didn’t run for a third term. We both know stupid people, great. > [@](#): > > It’s entirely plausible that a 60 or 70 year old basketball announcer is not up on all the arguments and counterarguments and the nuances and what slogans are supposed to imply and what they’re not. Come on, really? Does he also think that calling players, “Nappy headed hos” is perfectly acceptable? He is in the business of broadcast, and if he can’t keep up on the most basic ideas of the day that affect the majority of the players that he is announcing, then he’s incompetent anyway. > [@](#): > > My mother, who is no news maven. has the exact same reaction: “of course black lives matter, all lives do.” She volunteer tutors illiterate hispanic kids, and she voted for Obama in 2008. That’s the kind of person (and voter) that could be persuaded, but is being alienated instead. And even she knew enough not to say, “All Lives Matter”. > [@Chronos](#): > > Really, the problem with “All Lives Matter” starts with the fact that it’s a rebuttal to “Black Lives Matter”… but why does that statement even need a rebuttal? If you truly thought that all lives matter, then when someone told you “Black Lives Matter”, you’d answer “Amen, brother”. Not if you disagree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/77 "2020-06-03T17:38:13Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Again – if someone was carrying a sign saying “White people are inherently valuable,” would you not look at them askance? Would you regard someone saying “yes, white people have inherent value, everyone does” as an anti-white bigot? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think you would. Cripes **furt** , you are being an absolute firehose of illogical systemic-racism-tainted arguments today. The problem with gratuitously making the claim “White people are inherently valuable” is that it’s about a **non** -oppressed group cosplaying with the demands and language of **oppressed** groups. As I pointed out, our society is already absolutely saturated with the awareness that white people are inherently valuable. Which is not something that can be said for our societal awareness that black people are inherently valuable, or for that matter gay people, or nurses, or veterans, or bees. Given that context, when white people use the language of social protest and rights movements to make a similar public claim for the humanity of white people as a group, it comes across as stupid, arrogant and insensitive. _ **Because nobody has ever come within a million parsecs of undervaluing the humanity of white people as a group the way that the humanity of black people, gay people, and other historically disadvantaged groups has been undervalued.** _ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/78 "2020-06-03T17:40:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Uh-huh, right. That’s why, for example, all those [demonstrators at last month’s rally to protect healthcare for veterans](https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/nurses-and-veterans-rally-washington-dc-protect-veterans-health-care-va) were holding signs saying _“VA NURSES DESERVE RESPECT **TOO** ”_ and _“QUALITY CARE FOR VETERANS **TOO** ”_. You know, so that they wouldn’t accidentally hurt the fee-fees of non-nurses and non-veterans by not being “positive and inclusive” enough in > Oh wait, **no they fucking weren’t**. > > Because non-nurses and non-veterans aren’t such idiotically oversensitive snowflakes that they get all upset at the supposed “implications” of protests in favor of nurses and/or veterans that don’t explicitly acknowledge the equal importance of non-nurses and non-veterans. > demonstrating for their own specific cause. Ohhhhh… Now I feel the fool. I attended that as a counter protester, holding a sign that said “Everyone deserves respect.” and my friend had one that said, “Quality care for Everyone.” Thanks for clearing that up, I have some apologies to make. none of that actually happened, in case anyone tries to take that too seriously or literally. > [@](#): > > Similarly, non-bees manage not to feel “excluded” or “unvalued” because [the protest signs at a “Save the Bees” demonstration](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/video/2013/apr/27/march-of-the-beekeepers-protest-pesticides-video) say _“SAVE THE BEES”_ instead of _“SAVE THE BEES **TOO** ”_. In fact, for almost every political cause, people who are not the cause’s core constituency manage to endure the agonizing “exclusion” of not having their own value explicitly acknowledged in the cause’s slogans. > > But for _some_ reason or other, there sure are a metric shitload of non-black folks in the US who are just too fragile to condone the existence of “Save the Black People” demonstrations unless the demonstrators go out of their way to explicitly reassure said non-black folks that _yes, dear, you have value too!_ Pathetic twerps. (Well, actually, they tend to be not so much pathetic as racist, but that’s pathetic in its own way.) Does that mean that I should stop protesting Breast Cancer awareness rallies because they are not all about me and my prostate? Plus side, that frees up my weekends for one month a year. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/79 "2020-06-03T17:44:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Oh wait, **no they fucking weren’t**. Because non-nurses and non-veterans aren’t such idiotically oversensitive snowflakes that they get all upset at the supposed “implications” of protests in favor of nurses and/or veterans that don’t explicitly acknowledge the equal importance of non-nurses and non-veterans. Anecdotal evidence tells me that you are objectively wrong about at least some people’s reaction to these particular VA protests. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917/80 "2020-06-03T17:46:03Z")
> [@furt](#): > > This is sure to win them over. Why would any reasonable person need “winning over” on this issue? Surely if you’ve got the basic common sense to understand that a sign saying _“VA NURSES DESERVE RESPECT”_ is not in any way implying that you as a non-VA nurse **don’t** deserve respect, you are capable of understanding that a sign saying _“BLACK LIVES MATTER”_ is not in any way implying that non-black lives **don’t** matter. If you’re somehow capable of grasping that obvious fact in the case of VA nurses but not in the case of black people, then you know, you just might be a racist. In which case I don’t see why I should have to flatter and soothe your fragile racist sensibilities just to get you to momentarily tolerate such a reasonable statement as “Black Lives Matter” without throwing a tantrum over being “excluded”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-centrist-this-is-where-the-far-left-loses-me/854917.md?page=5)