# As A Progressive, I Found Voting This Year A Disgusting, Vile, Unpleasant Experience **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136 "2012-11-06T20:31:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/41 "2012-11-07T17:30:48Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I’m so sick of people voting at the Federal level over abortion. You’d think after 40 years of Republicans and Democrats coming and going in the White House, and nothing ever changing about abortion, that voters would understand that it’s set in stone. You’d think that after Romney slips up and says “I don’t know of any legislation limiting abortion that I’d support” out loud and his track record as governor, that voters would realize he’s not interested in changing the law. > > You’d think that people would realize by now that abortion threats are manufactured to win votes, but **Evil Captor** proves me wrong and the strategy right. > > Oh well. Maybe after another four years of absolutely nothing changing, he’ll get it. Dude, I don’t normally agree with you on political things, but I do here. It’s the one and only political topic I actually allowed myself to discuss on Facebook. The abortion issue is just to stir people up, and has no relevance to the actual election. I almost wonder what would happen if the Democratic Party ran a pro-life candidate. Maybe then people would get that it’s not a big deal. The only thing I’d be worried about are people like **Evil Captor** staying home. And thanks for the reminder that Romney was not really pro-life. That would have helped me. I forgot about that. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/42 "2012-11-07T20:58:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Actually I’m having a lot of fun hammering out in my mind what I think a progressive party should be all about right now. Once I’ve got that nailed down, then it’s time to talk to others. I’m thinking what’s needed is grassroots work nationwide … get progressives on city councils, school boards, into state legislatures, as well as Congress, and sure, work on making individual Dems more progressive. I still think the Dem’s national leadership needs a stick to hit them in the head before they will listen, and I doubt most Dems are ready for progressive change, but hell, I’ll work with the Tea Party to institute progressive change … and the Tea Party DO hate Wall Street. The best chance of that was lost due to the Occupy people’s inability to admit that they had to engage in, you know, actual _politics_. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/43 "2012-11-09T01:32:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It is totally possible to build a Progressive Party, but you would have to be ready to pay the consequences of such an effort. We have a two party system, so you would more likely draw voters from the Democratic Party than the Republican Party. This would throw elections to the Republicans every year you did this… Yes. I didn’t peg EC as a Republican: I may have been wrong. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Oh noes! If we build a progressive party we will no longer have the option of voting for Tweedledum instead of Tweedledee! Funny, the bankers and Wall Street didn’t see it that way. Neither did the gazillionaires who pissed their money at Karl Rove. Next time, they may aim better. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > If the Dems want my support they can earn it. I see no prospect that they will do so unless compelled to by a real and present danger of losing political power. The first 2 years of the Obama administration were remarkably fruitful as I’ve posted before. And this election went well. Consider the words of Simon Johnson: **The Importance Of Elizabeth Warren** One of the most important results on Tuesday was the election of Elizabeth Warren as United States senator for Massachusetts. Her victory matters not only because it helps the Democrats keep control of the Senate but because Ms. Warren has a proven track record of speaking truth to authority on financial issues – both to officials in Washington and to powerful people on Wall Street. During the campaign, Ms. Warren’s opponent and his allies made repeated attempts to portray her as antibusiness. In the most bizarre episode, Karl Rove’s Crossroads GPS ran an ad that contended that she favored bailing out large Wall Street banks. All of this was misdirection and disinformation. Ms. Warren has long stood for transparency and accountability. She has insisted that consumers need protection relative to financial products – when the customer cannot understand what is really on offer, this encourages bad behavior by some companies. If this behavior spreads sufficiently, the entire market can become contaminated – damaging the entire macroeconomy, exactly as we have seen in the last decade. … How much can a new senator accomplish? Within hours of her victory, some commentators from the financial sector suggested that no freshman senator can achieve much. This is wishful thinking on their part. A newly elected senator can have a great deal of impact if she is well informed on relevant details, plugged into the policy community and focused on a few key issues. It also helps if such a senator can bring effective outside pressure to bear – and Ms. Warren is a most effective communicator, including on television. She has an unusual ability to cut through technical details and to explain the issues in a way that everyone can relate to. Look EC, the effects of one more lefty activist are going to be minimal. The most you can hope for is to push the ball in the right direction. If I lived in a conservative district in a red state that had voted Democrat in the past and I had grown up there, I’d be licking my chops now. These clowns live in a bubble and are therefore susceptible to be shown up as jackasses. There was a NJ blogger who over the course of 4-5 years succeeded in flipping his electoral district and entertaining thousands in the process. I’m not sure what your core competences are, but as I see it you have a number of constructive possibilities. Handing elections to the Republicans isn’t one of them though. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/44 "2012-11-09T02:54:07Z")
Personally, I was happy to vote for the black guy with the hispanic vp. My state was a total lock, so I was free to vote my conscience. The problem with a progressive party is that it is still a _party_. I am simply fucking sick of the party boxes, they just end up diluting, distorting and diverting the ideology. I would much rather vote for the (wo)man than some unholy hash of platform planks. Because of that, I support the work of Mike Bloomberg, who speaks out for “Other”. What we really need is the koan of the Independent party. No platform, no loyalties, just a contract that says the candidates who sign on with the Independents and receive their support agree not to affiliate or caucus with any party or forfeit a really large surety. Parties are a cancer that need to be removed now. Anything we can do to further that will be going Forward. True progressivism is not attainable, nor, I think, wholly desirable on its own any more than anarcho-glibertarianism. Baby steps, folks, baby steps. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/45 "2012-11-09T17:40:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Wall Street does not hate Obama. They would rather have had Romney, but they’ll use Obama now that the prospect of using Romney is no longer viable. This only tells me that you don’t know anyone on wall street. Wall street is very upset with Obama’s attempts to increase capital gains, eliminate the dividends preference, eliminate carried interest, wall street reform, etc. In what way are those things “sucking up” to Wall Street? Is there some alternative candidate that hold Wall Street more accountable that doesn’t also tank our economy and capitalist system? You sound like one of those global warming fanatics that want us all to live like the Amish. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/46 "2012-11-09T17:51:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Oh noes! If we build a progressive party we will no longer have the option of voting for Tweedledum instead of Tweedledee! Yeah, and after the Republicans cut the hell out of Medicaid, turn Medicare into a voucher program and raise the eligibility age to 70, privatize Social Security, overturn Roe v. Wade and pass national fetal personhood legislation, passed national right-to-work legislation, and we’ve lived through 20 years of aftermath to all that, I’ll be so thankful for the hard work y’all have done to give us a real choice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/47 "2012-11-09T18:46:18Z")
As someone who often disagrees with the OP, I want to say that I wish him well in his endeavor, and encourage him to follow his passion. And I don’t mean that in a HA HA kind of way. There is a small, but significant minority of true progressives in the US, and while I would tweak his plan a bit, as I don’t think it would be wise to start a new party, but I think a well-defined faction within the Democratic party would be a productive way of having their voices heard. Think of it as the left wing version of the Tea Party (although, hopefully, without the crazies). Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/48 "2012-11-09T21:07:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As someone who often disagrees with the OP, I want to say that I wish him well in his endeavor, and encourage him to follow his passion. And I don’t mean that in a HA HA kind of way. There is a small, but significant minority of true progressives in the US, and while I would tweak his plan a bit, as I don’t think it would be wise to start a new party, but I think a well-defined faction within the Democratic party would be a productive way of having their voices heard. Think of it as the left wing version of the Tea Party (although, hopefully, without the crazies). > > Good luck! The Teabaggers have succeeded in kneecapping the Republican party over the last two or three years. Their most outspoken members have largely been marginalized or refudiated: Bachmann held her seat by the skin of her teeth, West looks to have been booted, the hard-right meme is straight up played out. You think the Democrats are not able to learn from the mistakes of others? Progressive ideology gets slammed just as hard from the other side, even though it is based on actual logic, because emotional appeals are rather effective in elections. Right now, I could never vote for a R for congress because it would amount to a vote in support of the orangetan who controls the house (and although that could change, whomever they replace him with will not likely be an improvement). The same calculation pertains to the Democrats for any person who despises Pelosi. The parties have the House locked down, and a third of interested Americans do not find it amusing. Parties, all of them, are the problem, they are not reparable. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/49 "2012-11-14T22:14:44Z")
> [@For You](#): > > You think the Democrats are not able to learn from the mistakes of others? Just because Democrats haven’t shot themselves in the foot recently doesn’t mean they are out of ammo, they’re probably just reloading. > [@](#): > > Parties, all of them, are the problem, they are not reparable. And how do you avoid these sort of coalitions in a simple majority system. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/50 "2012-11-15T08:07:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And how do you avoid these sort of coalitions in a simple majority system. It may be possible with absolute public financing, meaning anyone could have a fair shot at election, but I have a hard time imagining it without oppressive constraints on the press. It just might not be able to work and also support balanced democracy, though it is not entirely clear that American democracy is in fact balanced as it stands. Of course, I would be perfectly happy to support a reasonable alternative to FPTP simple majority, since my vote seems to have no real value here anyway. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136/51 "2012-11-15T10:52:43Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > 1. But if I WERE to do anything illegal, whether it’s illegal politics, credit card fraud or just knocking over a convenience store, you can bet that I will start by announcing it on this message board and then posting a followup on my Facebook page. You forgot Twitter .. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-a-progressive-i-found-voting-this-year-a-disgusting-vile-unpleasant-experience/640136.md?page=2)