# As CIC, is trump now a veteran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212 "2017-02-19T05:38:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/1 "2017-02-19T05:38:35Z")
Is he now eligible to be buried in Arlington? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/2 "2017-02-19T05:42:18Z")
I think I just got really nauseous. But I think the answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/3 "2017-02-19T06:05:57Z")
[He’s not a veteran](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/101): > [@](#): > > The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable. He is not serving _in_ the armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/4 "2017-02-19T06:09:02Z")
[Eligibility for interment in Arlington National Cemetery.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/553.12) I don’t see any loopholes for a President who isn’t a veteran. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/5 "2017-02-19T06:15:36Z")
The [current regulations](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/553.12) for burial at Arlington would not seem to include the current president: > [@](#): > > (6) Any veteran who served on active duty (other than active duty for training) and who held any of the following positions: > > (i) President or Vice President of the United States; These rules aren’t written in stone, though, so if he wanted to be buried there, any issue of his eligibility would just be a political question to be decided at the time. It’s not like John F. Kennedy’s large memorial was prescribed in advance. It would appear that he could even change the rules himself, although obviously he would no longer be president at the time of his burial, so they could be changed back in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/6 "2017-02-19T08:55:02Z")
The President of the US is Commander In Chief of the military. He has ultimate authority over the military, but he is not a member of the military. The president is a civilian, and holds no military rank (Command In Chief is not a military rank). ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/7 "2017-02-19T10:30:20Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The President of the US is Commander In Chief of the military. He has ultimate authority over the military, but he is not a member of the military. But if the regulations concerning who is buried in the cemetery are set by the military rather than the legislature, then by his “ultimate authority” he can unilaterally change the regulations, no? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/8 "2017-02-19T11:04:11Z")
Well, he did receive a Purple Heart. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/9 "2017-02-19T12:00:16Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > But if the regulations concerning who is buried in the cemetery are set by the military rather than the legislature, then by his “ultimate authority” he can unilaterally change the regulations, no? I’m an engineer, not a lawyer, but my understanding of it is that who can and can’t be buried there is actually regulated by federal law (see the link in **Lord Feldon** ’s post). A law would have to be passed to change those regulations to make a non-veteran president eligible for burial there. The president could introduce the bill, but congress would have to pass it. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/10 "2017-02-19T13:01:38Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I’m an engineer, not a lawyer, but my understanding of it is that who can and can’t be buried there is actually regulated by federal law (see the link in **Lord Feldon** ’s post). **Lord Feldon** ’s link is to the Code of Federal Regulations, not a statute. As I understand it, the CFR _[codifies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codification_%28law%29)_ certain laws, but it also contains a bunch of extra rules that the executive branch sets at the discretion of the legislature. The question is whether the issue of who is eligible for burial at the cemetery is specified by statute (in which case the CFR can do little more than restate what’s already in the law), or whether it’s something the statute devolves onto a federal agency over which the president has ultimate control. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/11 "2017-02-19T14:12:53Z")
Like I said, I’m an engineer, not a lawyer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/12 "2017-02-19T15:20:24Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I’m an engineer, not a lawyer, but my understanding of it is that who can and can’t be buried there is actually regulated by federal law (see the link in **Lord Feldon** ’s post). A law would have to be passed to change those regulations to make a non-veteran president eligible for burial there. The president could introduce the bill, but congress would have to pass it. And it would be an egregious insult to those who fought and those who survived them. There are enough fake vets out there without some poseur deciding he deserves to lie next to them because of a job title. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/13 "2017-02-19T15:29:07Z")
Several sources indicate that former Presidents are eligible to be buried at Arlington, presumably on the grounds of having served as Commander in Chief. ([here](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2001/12/who_gets_buried_in_arlington_national_cemetery.html) and [here](http://www.freetoursbyfoot.com/burial-requirements-arlington-national-cemetery/) and Wikipedia). None of them appear to be definitive, however. Two Presidents are buried in Arlington: JFK, who was a veteran, and William Howard Taft, who never served in the Armed Forces. Given that the rules that only veterans could be buried at Arlington were in effect when Taft died in 1930, I assume he was considered eligible despite his lack of military service. Three of the Challenger astronauts are buried in Arlington, along with a communal grave for unidentified remains. Of those buried in Arlington, Dick Scobee and Michael Smith were in the military, but Judith Resnick was not. Evidently the rules can be waived in special circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/14 "2017-02-19T15:44:00Z")
Supreme Court Justices Warren Burger, Harry Blackmun, and Thurgood Marshall are buried in Arlington but never served in the military. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/15 "2017-02-19T16:23:25Z")
Wikipedia has a list of [notable civilians buried at Arlington National Cemetery.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_buried_at_Arlington_National_Cemetery#Notable_civilians) The list included Jackie Kennedy, who of course is not a veteran. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/16 "2017-02-19T16:35:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wikipedia has a list of [notable civilians buried at Arlington National Cemetery.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_buried_at_Arlington_National_Cemetery#Notable_civilians) > > The list included Jackie Kennedy, who of course is not a veteran. From the regulations already cited: > [@](#): > > (b)Derivatively eligible persons. The following individuals are derivatively eligible persons for purposes of interment who may be interred if space is available in the gravesite of the primarily eligible person: > > (1) The spouse of a primarily eligible person who is or will be interred in Arlington National Cemetery. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/17 "2017-02-19T16:40:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The list included Jackie Kennedy, who of course is not a veteran. Most of the civilians interred at Arlington are there as spouses of veterans. Although JFK was a veteran, Jackie would seem not to qualify under this paragraph: > [@](#): > > (1) The spouse of a primarily eligible person who is or will be interred in Arlington National Cemetery. **A former spouse of a primarily eligible person is not eligible for interment in Arlington National Cemetery under this paragraph.** Bolding mine. However, she could qualify under this one, since two of their children who died as infants or were stillborn are also buried at the gravesite. > [@](#): > > (3) The parents of a minor child or a permanently dependent adult child, whose remains were interred in Arlington National Cemetery based on the eligibility of a parent at the time of the child’s death, unless eligibility of the non-service connected parent is lost through divorce from the primarily eligible parent. While it is not stated explicitly, it appears that minor children may be buried with an eligible parent. Although a “former spouse,” she was widowed and not divorced so this doesn’t exclude her. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/18 "2017-02-19T18:23:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Most of the civilians interred at Arlington are there as spouses of veterans. Although JFK was a veteran, Jackie would seem not to qualify under this paragraph: > > Bolding mine. Jackie is not a “Former Spouse” though She did not divorce JFK, JFK died while Jackie was still married to him. Not sure of a better way to put this but, If your spouse dies, you are not unmarried to them, even if you later remarry. You can argue the semantics of it all day long but that is how it is. JFK died with Jackie as his wife, she will never be the presidents former wife, ever. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/19 "2017-02-19T19:54:06Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > He is not serving _in_ the armed forces. I think this is ambiguous at best. Is there a law or case cite that says that a President, by virtue of being CIC is not serving “in” the armed forces? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212/20 "2017-02-19T19:54:38Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The [current regulations](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/553.12) for burial at Arlington would not seem to include the current president: That’s like the answer to the question of, when the plane crashes on the border, where you bury the survivors, right? It’s probably safe to assume that, when Trump is in a condition where he’s ready for burial, he will be a former president. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-cic-is-trump-now-a-veteran/780212.md?page=2)