# As in the movie "Good Will Hunting" any real math prodigies ever discovered with no math education? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 13, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795 "2013-03-13T05:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/21 "2013-03-13T17:36:06Z")
[Marjorie Rice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjorie_Rice) discovered 4 new types of [pentagon tessellations](http://home.comcast.net/~tessellations/tessellations.htm) after reading a Scientific American article about tessellations and becoming interested in the subject. No training beyond a high school education. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/22 "2013-03-13T18:20:24Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I guess there are no real examples, but if it is going to happen it will be in combinatorics where it is conceivable that an uneducated person might have a unusual insight. Note that what happened in the movie was not an example of a brilliant but uneducated person having an unusual insight. We see Will devouring books of all sorts in his free time. It’s a case of a brilliant _self-educated_ person solving an advanced problem. If you’re capable of learning by reading mathematics textbooks at a very accelerated rate, the educational value of sitting in a math class is limited. He even makes that point explicitly when he’s insulting the long-haired guy about dropping a hundred grand on an education he could get for free at the local library. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/23 "2013-03-13T18:45:13Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Note that what happened in the movie was not an example of a brilliant but uneducated person having an unusual insight. We see Will devouring books of all sorts in his free time. It’s a case of a brilliant _self-educated_ person solving an advanced problem. If you’re capable of learning by reading mathematics textbooks at a very accelerated rate, the educational value of sitting in a math class is limited. He even makes that point explicitly when he’s insulting the long-haired guy about dropping a hundred grand on an education he could get for free at the local library. If only Will could check out a book that would teach him how to love. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/24 "2013-03-13T20:01:48Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Note that what happened in the movie was not an example of a brilliant but uneducated person having an unusual insight. We see Will devouring books of all sorts in his free time. It’s a case of a brilliant _self-educated_ person solving an advanced problem. If you’re capable of learning by reading mathematics textbooks at a very accelerated rate, the educational value of sitting in a math class is limited. This is a point well worth noting. But it is also worth noting that _taking_ math classes, and earning a degree in mathematics, involves more than just _sitting_ in math class. It also involves having the style, substance, and logic of one’s own work checked by professional mathematicians. > [@Nametag](#): > > One other point that has been made about Ramanujan’s career (I saw it in a Numberphile video) is that due to his uneven and delayed education (as indicated by the number of wrong or duplicative results he produced, and his unconventional presentation), he did not have any consistent professorial guidance until he went to Cambridge at the age of 25 – the age at which most mathematicians have already done their most original work. Here’s an excerpt I found interesting in Robert Kanigel’s [biography](http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Knew-Infinity-Ramanujan/dp/0671750615/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1363204650&sr=1-3&keywords=robert+kanigel) of Ramanujan: > [@](#): > > There was nothing “wrong” in what Ramanujan did; it was just _weird_. Ramanujan was not in contact with other mathematicians. He hadn’t read last month’s _Proceedings of the London Mathematical Society_. He was not a member of the mathematical community. So that today, scholars citing his work must invariably say, “In Ramanujan’s notation,” or “Expressing Ramanujan’s idea in standard notation,” or use similar such language. > > He was like a species that had branched off from the main evolutionary line and, like an Australian echidna or Galapagos tortoise, had come to occupy a biological niche all his own. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/25 "2013-03-13T20:44:20Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > He was 40320 years old? Very good! ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/26 "2013-03-13T20:57:43Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > He was 40320 years old? Took me four hours but I get it. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/27 "2013-03-13T21:17:52Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Describing it as a ‘Good Will Hunting-like incident’ seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. The solver was a PhD student in mathematics (and the son of a math professor), who was taking the class, not some unknown prodigy of a janitor. (And the student only solved the two problems because he mistakenly thought they were homework assignments). Disagree. Someone sees a math problem on a board. Mistakenly thinks it’s solvable. Solves it. Blows minds. It’s essentially the same. ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/28 "2013-03-13T21:23:44Z")
Isn’t there a story about Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar and his solving a problem at a young age while en route via steam ship to England? In reading his wiki-ography he is quite well educated, but I do recall something of a story about his solving some incredible equation/thought experiment before hitting the Big Time education and recognition. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/29 "2013-03-14T00:14:28Z")
> [@Orville\_mogul](#): > > Intrigued. How’s that? Distance over time? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/30 "2013-03-14T00:32:14Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > Isn’t there a story about Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar and his solving a problem at a young age while en route via steam ship to England? In reading his wiki-ography he is quite well educated, but I do recall something of a story about his solving some incredible equation/thought experiment before hitting the Big Time education and recognition. [Chandrasekhar limit - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrasekhar_limit) - initially derived on a steamship trip when Chandrasekhar was 20. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/31 "2013-03-14T03:24:54Z")
Two interesting videos about this subject: https://www.youtube.com/embed/iW_LkYiuTKE?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=UUoxcjq-8xIDTYp3uz647V5A https://www.youtube.com/embed/SzjdcPbjaR4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=UUoxcjq-8xIDTYp3uz647V5A ---
**Author:** ![rhysf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rhysf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhysf)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/32 "2013-03-14T03:46:03Z")
[Terence Tao](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Tao) had no maths education beyond Sesame Street and some fridge magnets when he independently discovered how to do basic arithmetic at the age of two. Unfortunately, he had plenty of education between then and winning the Fields Medal. ---
**Author:** ![rhysf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rhysf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhysf)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/33 "2013-03-14T04:04:23Z")
[Jedediah Buxton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedediah_Buxton) kind of fits although was perhaps more of a savant. He was illiterate and may have had no maths education at all but was a prodigious mental calculator. ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/34 "2013-03-14T09:33:58Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Distance over time? Mmm, OK. But doesn’t differentiation give you slope at a specific point on the curve, whereas distance over time would be an average rate? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/35 "2013-03-14T09:37:55Z")
Yes, in a non-linear function. The slope in a linear one just gives you y/x, which applies throughout the curve. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/36 "2013-03-14T10:59:49Z")
Buxton was clearly not a mathematical prodigy. He was a mental calculator: > **[Mental calculator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_calculator)** > > A mental calculator or human calculator is a person with a prodigious ability in some area of mental calculation (such as adding, subtracting, multiplying or dividing large numbers). > The world's best mental calculators are invited every two years to compete for the Mental Calculation World Cup. On July 17, 2022, at Heinz Nixdorf MuseumsForum in Paderborn city of Germany, 12-year-old Indian mental calculator Aaryan Nitin Shukla clinched the title to become the new World Champion. Aaryan ended the... There are some cases where a mental calculator was also a good mathematician (or some other type of scientist), but he’s not one of those cases. He showed lots of the symptoms of obsessive-compulsive behavior. Incidentally, that Wikipedia entry on him is pretty poor. It’s clearly based on just a few very old sources. For instance, at one point Buxton calculated in his head the 139th power of 2. It says that it can’t be verified that his calculation was completely correct, since the only way to check it was to use logarithms, and they don’t give a completely accurate answer. Of course, these days it’s easy to quickly get an accurate answer with a computer. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/37 "2013-03-14T11:22:32Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > He was 40320 years old? 😕 (do you have to be a mathematician to get this? Or should I wait another 4 hours and see if a lightbulb smacks me on the head?) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795/38 "2013-03-14T11:38:19Z")
> **[Factorial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial)** > > In mathematics, the factorial of a non-negative integer > > > > n > > > {\\displaystyle n} > > , denoted by > > > > n > ! > > > {\\displaystyle n!} > > , is the product of all positive integers less than or equal to > > > > n > > > {\\displaystyle n} > > . The factorial of > > > > n > > > {\\displaystyle n} > > also equals the product of > > > > n > > > {\\displaysty... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-in-the-movie-good-will-hunting-any-real-math-prodigies-ever-discovered-with-no-math-education/652795.md?page=1)