# As it stands, I object to some of the ways fellow athiest try to provoke others.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 4, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961 "2015-01-04T17:57:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/201 "2015-01-08T14:11:14Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> Really? O.K. His very first post in this thread:
>
> Not only is that one hell of a persecution complex, but it stereotypes all “believers”. It’s a bigoted point of view. It’s an “us and them” point of view. It’s irrational. It’s stupid. It’s hatred.
Far be it from me to defend **DT’s** views of religion, but… there is nothing in that quote about him hating believers. That was what you were asked to support. Sure, it’s a ridiculous characterization of believers, but it’s not about him hating them.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/202 "2015-01-08T14:30:18Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Far be it from me to defend **DT’s** views of religion, but… there is nothing in that quote about him hating believers. That was what you were asked to support. Sure, it’s a ridiculous characterization of believers, but it’s not about him hating them.
It is perhaps an extreme characterization. It is certainly debatable as to what proportion of believers that it represents. However, it isn’t ridiculous.
Look at the example given previously of the bus ad that was rejected for being offensive. It said nothing except “Atheism.” It is hard to reject the idea that the concept of atheism itself is offensive to many believers.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/203 "2015-01-08T14:38:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Far be it from me to defend **DT’s** views of religion, but… there is nothing in that quote about him hating believers
I’m actually going to give **Der Trihs** enough rope to hang himself here.
**Der Trihs** , do you hate “believers”? And please define “believers”.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/204 "2015-01-08T14:52:51Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> I’m actually going to give **Der Trihs** enough rope to hang himself here.
In other words, you made a claim that you cannot back up.
> [@](#):
>
> **Der Trihs** , do you hate “believers”? And please define “believers”.
This is the best way to resolve the question, of course, but I would hope you could at least take responsibility for yourself.
For example: “I made a claim, and I can’t actually back it up. Let’s ascertain the truth of the matter.” Respectable.
“I’ll give him enough rope to hang himself.” Not respectable. Aggressively shifting blame for your own failings rather than taking responsibility for your actions.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/205 "2015-01-08T15:32:33Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> If you don’t think “we offend them by existing” isn’t an example of crawling up on the metaphorical cross, then I don’t know what to tell you.
It isn’t, and apparently you don’t.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/206 "2015-01-08T15:33:33Z")
**Hentor** , your join date is 2002. Do not feign ignorance about the opinions of one of the most pitted posters on the SDMB. Why don’t you just let him speak.
Besides, you have it exactly backwards. The question, my question, is who is the “them” that is offended by the existence of atheists? Because to me, that’s awful vague. So vague that it hides a prejudice that will come out if you just let him speak.
But, you know what? Fuck that. The OP is right. The question in the OP is, when you get down to it, is honey better than vinegar? Yes, yes it is. Have any of us embraced that? Myself included? No, not really. It’s a little odd. The question is how to endorse atheism without being an asshole. Not a good job here.
Good hustle, though.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/207 "2015-01-08T15:34:09Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> I’m actually going to give **Der Trihs** enough rope to hang himself here.
>
> **Der Trihs** , do you hate “believers”? And please define “believers”.
Would you mind backing up your own statement, first?
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/208 "2015-01-08T15:35:12Z")
What if Trihs loves the believer but hates the belief?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/209 "2015-01-08T15:37:38Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> **Hentor** , your join date is 2002. Do not feign ignorance about the opinions of one of the most pitted posters on the SDMB. Why don’t you just let him speak.
>
> Besides, you have it exactly backwards. The question, my question, is who is the “them” that is offended by the existence of atheists? Because to me, that’s awful vague. So vague that it hides a prejudice that will come out if you just let him speak.
>
> But, you know what? Fuck that. The OP is right. The question in the OP is, when you get down to it, is honey better than vinegar? Yes, yes it is. Have any of us embraced that? Myself included? No, not really. It’s a little odd. The question is how to endorse atheism without being an asshole. Not a good job here.
>
> Good hustle, though.
The OP gave a bad example, and you just upped the rhetoric and gave _no_ examples. Not a good job here, either.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/210 "2015-01-08T15:41:34Z")
**Czarcasm** , I noticed you left out the part about the Dalai Lama
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/211 "2015-01-08T15:42:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> What if Trihs loves the believer but hates the belief?
Now _that_, I could respect.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/212 "2015-01-08T15:43:12Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> **Czarcasm** , I noticed you left out the part about the Dalai Lama
Good for you!
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/213 "2015-01-08T15:49:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> What if Trihs loves the believer but hates the belief?
What if he hates the belief and is otherwise indifferent towards the believer?
Personally, I have only a limited amount of love to give. I dole it out quite sparingly.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/214 "2015-01-08T15:53:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#):
>
> What if he hates the belief and is otherwise indifferent towards the believer?
I was going to suggest Trihs hated the belief and viewed the believer with not-unjustified suspicion in the process of negotiating exactly what armedmonkey would find acceptable, but okay.
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/215 "2015-01-08T16:04:24Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> **Hentor** , your join date is 2002. Do not feign ignorance about the opinions of one of the most pitted posters on the SDMB. Why don’t you just let him speak.
Hentor never limited his speech.
> [@](#):
>
> Besides, you have it exactly backwards.
What does he have backwards? You said that rabid atheism is going to drive you more to being a theist. How rational. Either post examples of Der Trihs claiming he hates theists or retract your statement. Yours is another example (in this thread alone) of claiming the existence of the dickish, hateful atheists saying things that aren’t being backed up. I’m not saying such atheists don’t exist- put a label on a group of people and I’ll show you dicks and haters, but the caricature of the “militant” atheist being a dick and full of hatred seems to be more of an exaggerated reality than an actual one.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/216 "2015-01-08T16:08:19Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#):
>
> I’ll show you dicks and haters
This sounds like the mission statement of one of the worst tumblr sites ever. But that’s just my opinion, of course.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/217 "2015-01-08T16:12:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#):
>
> What if he hates the belief and is otherwise indifferent towards the believer?
>
> Personally, I have only a limited amount of love to give. I dole it out quite sparingly.
If you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you would find infinite love.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/218 "2015-01-08T16:22:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> If you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you would find infinite love.
Hmmm. So I’ve heard. I’m thinking of the people I know who say that they have done so. They would seem to all be exceptions to your rule.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/219 "2015-01-08T16:27:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> I was going to suggest Trihs hated the belief and viewed the believer with not-unjustified suspicion in the process of negotiating exactly what armedmonkey would find acceptable, but okay.
What, chuckle, exactly do you think I would find “acceptable”?
Alright, everybody huddle up here. We all together? O.K. It’s simple. I don’t care if you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Budhist, Hindu, Atheist, or whatever. Nobody should and I believe the majority of humanity doesn’t care as much as some people with agendas would want. So, how about we just, um, I don’t know, know that there are billions of people on this verdant Earth and every god blessed (if you believe in that sort of thing) one of them is going to have their own unique take on their place in the Universe and what may or may not guide them. I know this is crazy, but how about we just not care? Too hard? Yeah, I thought so. It’s Earth.
Just Earth. Seven billion assholes on a spinning rock in space.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/220 "2015-01-08T16:36:06Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> What, chuckle, exactly do you think I would find “acceptable”?
>
> Alright, everybody huddle up here. We all together? O.K. It’s simple. I don’t care if you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Budhist, Hindu, Atheist, or whatever. Nobody should and I believe the majority of humanity doesn’t care as much as some people with agendas would want. So, how about we just, um, I don’t know, know that there are billions of people on this verdant Earth and every god blessed (if you believe in that sort of thing) one of them is going to have their own unique take on their place in the Universe and what may or may not guide them. I know this is crazy, but how about we just not care? Too hard? Yeah, I thought so. It’s Earth.
>
> Just Earth. Seven billion assholes on a spinning rock in space.
Now try saying this into a mirror, because most of the hissy-fitting going on is coming from those reacting from the showing of a simple slide.
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