# As it stands, I object to some of the ways fellow athiest try to provoke others.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 4, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961 "2015-01-04T17:57:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/221 "2015-01-08T17:02:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> The OP gave a bad example, and you just upped the rhetoric and gave _no_ examples. Not a good job here, either.
I honestly don’t think it was a bad example. You say it was over a “simple slide”, but in my HUMBLE opinion, the slide was pretty stupid to display. It doesn’t even factually represent the belief that we came from God, (not in Jesus-form), out of dirt and a rib… which would be just as ridiculous. It’s obvious the slide might rub people the wrong way.
I go back on a lot of shit that I say here, but, as it stands, I \*still \*think this professor was wrong.
---
### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/222 "2015-01-08T17:04:55Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> I know this is crazy, but how about we just not care? Too hard?
What’s the appropriate amount of caring what others believe one should have? You realize that beliefs are passed down to children and beliefs affect actions, right? Should skeptical minded people not care “too hard” about things like the following that are the result of the supernatural beliefs people have?:
[http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/church-wants-creationism-taught-georgia-schools/nPHYX/](http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/church-wants-creationism-taught-georgia-schools/nPHYX/)
Not to mention what happened in Paris yesterday. Here’s some good responses on why we should care “too hard.”:
> **[Should We Care Whether Others Believe in God? | Center for Inquiry](https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/should_we_care_whether_others_believe_in_god/)**
>
> A discussion of the extent to which religious belief is important
> [@](#):
>
> Just Earth. Seven billion assholes on a spinning rock in space.
No wonder you don’t care too hard.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/223 "2015-01-08T17:18:41Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#):
>
> No wonder you don’t care too hard.
Oh, how wrong you are. I am employed to save lives. That’s what I do. If there is blood on my hands, it’s actual blood. I do this because I _love_ people. Sure, they’re assholes, but they’re people just the same. Two nights ago a crazy old lady kicked me in the head. I was amused. I damn sure gave her some IM Geodon, though. 😃
Religion and people are two very, very different things
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/224 "2015-01-08T17:27:44Z")
^ Not only are you not going to back up claims, you’re not going to take responses in context and instead respond about what a loving individual you are to a world of assholes. Lovely.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/225 "2015-01-08T17:51:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> If you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you would find infinite love.
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#):
>
> Hmmm. So I’ve heard. I’m thinking of the people I know who say that they have done so. They would seem to all be exceptions to your rule.
Well, as they say:
No Jesus, no Love.
Know Jesus, know love!
And just so there is no misunderstanding here, I’m being completely facetious. 😃
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/226 "2015-01-08T17:55:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Well, as they say:
>
> No Jesus, no Love.
> Know Jesus, know love!
>
> And just so there is no misunderstanding here, I’m being completely facetious. 😃
Oh I know. Sorry to tromp on your humor; I find the hypocrisy darkly comic and was just trying to echo it.
---
### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/227 "2015-01-08T17:56:16Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#):
>
> ^ Not only are you not going to back up claims, you’re not going to take responses in context and instead respond about what a loving individual you are to a world of assholes. Lovely.
What “context” was I supposed to take in in? You posted three links. The first was a local news story about creationism. I’m not a creationist. Good Lord no. How is that even relevant? The second was a link to “Center For Inquiry” which reads like an atheist version of a Jehovah’s Witness Pamphlet, and the third was a fucking youtube video. And then you say “no wonder you don’t care too hard”.
You got me. I don’t care about any of that.
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/228 "2015-01-08T18:16:54Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> What “context” was I supposed to take in in?
You asked that we all not care too hard. In context to what you and everyone in this thread have been talking about, it seems you specifically mean care about what others think. I wrote about and posted links that explain why we should care. When I post that it’s no wonder you don’t care too hard, you brag about being a lifesaver to all the assholes out there. Why should the rest of us not care too hard, but you claim to? You’re still not going to back up your statements with cites?
> [@](#):
>
> You posted three links. The first was a local news story about creationism. I’m not a creationist. Good Lord no.
You don’t actually think I was inferring such, do you?
> [@](#):
>
> How is that even relevant?
Seriously? I plainly spelled it out. We’re talking about whether or not why we should care “too hard” about what others believe because beliefs don’t exist in a vacuum; they affect actions. What people believe matters and so does caring about it as educating them and speaking out on the benefits of rational thinking and skepticism and the problems with having beliefs based on faith might help to make for a better world.
> [@](#):
>
> The second was a link to “Center For Inquiry” which reads like an atheist version of a Jehovah’s Witness Pamphlet
Uh huh. It made no sense at all, right?
> [@](#):
>
> and the third was a fucking youtube video.
Yeah, and?
> [@](#):
>
> You got me. I don’t care about any of that.
I know. But on topics like this I usually don’t post for the benefit of the one I’m debating with, so that’s okay.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/229 "2015-01-08T18:22:40Z")
Alright, I want to get to my core point.
To “preach” a point of view, you have to understand two things: 1) The people you are trying to convince are flawed assholes. 2) You are _also_ a flawed asshole.
The trick is to be lesser of an asshole. I know most of the people reading this are atheists, but I also know that these people have seen churches and local congregations of said churches. Think small scale. Which has more members? The congregation that sells pumpkins just before Halloween and runs a canned food drive before Thanksgiving, or the one the one with the preacher that’s all about fire and brimstone?
So, again, the OP. Honey and vinegar. If you are going to endorse _anything_, you should be nice. It just works better.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/230 "2015-01-08T18:30:30Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> Alright, I want to get to my core point.
>
> To “preach” a point of view, you have to understand two things: 1) The people you are trying to convince are flawed assholes. 2) You are _also_ a flawed asshole.
>
> The trick is to be lesser of an asshole. I know most of the people reading this are atheists, but I also know that these people have seen churches and local congregations of said churches. Think small scale. Which has more members? The congregation that sells pumpkins just before Halloween and runs a canned food drive before Thanksgiving, or the one the one with the preacher that’s all about fire and brimstone?
>
> So, again, the OP. Honey and vinegar. If you are going to endorse _anything_, you should be nice. It just works better.
So if we are all just “good” atheists, mind our manners and shut up, all those rabid religionists will see the errors of their ways and start listening to us? And how did that work out before we started to speak up in recent years?
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/231 "2015-01-08T18:33:17Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> So, again, the OP. Honey and vinegar. If you are going to endorse _anything_, you should be nice. It just works better.
> **[Oh, those nasty atheists!](http://the-attempts.blogspot.com/2011/02/oh-those-nasty-atheists.html)**
>
> There’s a civil war raging in the atheist realm. Supposed comrades in godlessness are caught up in what’s come to be known as the DBAD (‘don...
[http://wading-in.net/walkabout/2011/10/so-much-for-being-nice/](http://wading-in.net/walkabout/2011/10/so-much-for-being-nice/)
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/232 "2015-01-08T18:41:08Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> Alright, I want to get to my core point.
>
> To “preach” a point of view, you have to understand two things: 1) The people you are trying to convince are flawed assholes. 2) You are _also_ a flawed asshole.
>
> The trick is to be lesser of an asshole. I know most of the people reading this are atheists, but I also know that these people have seen churches and local congregations of said churches. Think small scale. Which has more members? The congregation that sells pumpkins just before Halloween and runs a canned food drive before Thanksgiving, or the one the one with the preacher that’s all about fire and brimstone?
>
> So, again, the OP. Honey and vinegar. If you are going to endorse _anything_, you should be nice. It just works better.
Yeah, this is exactly why every 2 years the airwaves are inundated by ads extolling the virtues of political candidates. People always flock to the side of the nice!
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/233 "2015-01-08T18:43:48Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> Think small scale. Which has more members? The congregation that sells pumpkins just before Halloween and runs a canned food drive before Thanksgiving, or the one the one with the preacher that’s all about fire and brimstone?
The second, generally. And it’s certainly going to be more _important,_ more listened to with more power.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/234 "2015-01-08T18:45:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> So if we are all just “good” atheists, mind our manners and shut up, all those rabid religionists will see the errors of their ways and start listening to us? And how did that work out before we started to speak up in recent years?
No, **Czarcasm** , it’s about salesmanship. If you want converts the last thing you do is tell the potential convert that he or she is fundamentally wrong. What you do is _show_ them that there is a better way to live.
And don’t give me the “speak up in recent years” bullshit. Atheism is not a matter of civil rights anymore than vegetarianism is. Granted, Atheism would hurt somebody’s chances to be elected President, but you know what? So would Veganism.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/235 "2015-01-08T18:57:47Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> No, **Czarcasm** , it’s about salesmanship. If you want converts the last thing you do is tell the potential convert that he or she is fundamentally wrong. What you do is _show_ them that there is a better way to live.
>
> And don’t give me the “speak up in recent years” bullshit. Atheism is not a matter of civil rights anymore than vegetarianism is. Granted, Atheism would hurt somebody’s chances to be elected President, but you know what? So would Veganism.
If you are an atheist, you are without a doubt one of the “good” ones.
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### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/236 "2015-01-08T19:13:28Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> Atheism is not a matter of civil rights anymore than vegetarianism is. Granted, Atheism would hurt somebody’s chances to be elected President, but you know what? So would Veganism.
😕
Freedom of religion isn’t a civil right to you?
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/237 "2015-01-08T19:14:20Z")
As I said before, I’m not an atheist. I’m, uh, areligious. I sorta believe in God. No, I DO believe in God. I just don’t think any religion has got it right. Or ever will. The whole “Ineffable” thing.
Anyway, that puts me in a very neutral position. Kinda, well, I can’t quite put it into words, but this guy comes close:
> [@Kurt Vonnegut](#):
>
> Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
> I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I’m dead.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/238 "2015-01-08T19:19:33Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> As I said before, I’m not an atheist. I’m, uh, areligious. I sorta believe in God. No, I DO believe in God. I just don’t think any religion has got it right. Or ever will. The whole “Ineffable” thing.
>
> Anyway, that puts me in a very neutral position. Kinda, well, I can’t quite put it into words, but this guy comes close:
“I believe in God. Therefore, I’m in a neutral position with respect to atheists.”
“Also, I have no idea what these terms mean.”
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/239 "2015-01-08T19:24:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#):
>
> 😕
>
> Freedom of religion isn’t a civil right to you?
Oh, fucking please. Get off the damn cross. There is very settled law guaranteeing your right not to believe. It’s the first fucking amendment, for Christ’s sake.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 8, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-it-stands-i-object-to-some-of-the-ways-fellow-athiest-try-to-provoke-others/708961/240 "2015-01-08T19:26:52Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#):
>
> Oh, fucking please. Get off the damn cross. There is very settled law guaranteeing your right not to believe. It’s the first fucking amendment, for Christ’s sake.
That doesn’t stop it from being a civil right-that _makes_ it a civil right! :smack:
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