# As the Border Crisis Calms Down..... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916 "2008-03-11T02:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/1 "2008-03-11T02:13:35Z")
As the border troubles of Colombia versus Venezuela and Ecuador are starting to calm down, President Bush (according to an AP news article) is taking this particular moment to see about having Venezuela designated as a nation that supports terrorism. Is this really the right time for him to take such a step just as these troubles seem to be calming down? Won’t this just stir things up all over again? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/2 "2008-03-11T03:23:48Z")
Suprised it took him **this** long! (Which, in case it’s not clear, is intended as an indictment of Bush, not Chavez.) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/3 "2008-03-11T05:39:50Z")
There appears to be some justification, if you assume the list is justified in the first place. > [@](#): > > The legal review comes after Colombia captured four computers belonging to a guerrilla leader in a March 1 raid into Ecuador. The documents suggest the Venezuelan government was in the process of providing $300 million to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC. > > The U.S. and Colombian governments and the European Union have officially designated FARC as a terrorist organization, but Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has said publicly that he considers it a legitimate insurgency. At least it would show some consistency. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/4 "2008-03-11T06:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Suprised it took him **this** long! (Which, in case it’s not clear, is intended as an indictment of Bush, not Chavez.) [/QUOTE] Because paying a bunch of thugs with no ties to any government to kill people and blow stuff up ISN’T supporting terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/5 "2008-03-11T08:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] Because paying a bunch of thugs with no ties to any government to kill people and blow stuff up ISN’T supporting terrorism. [/QUOTE] :sigh: Do I have to defend Chavez? Well, this is the straight dope after all. The thing is, if it was true what the military thugs in Colombia are saying (And there are many things the Colombians are doing to suspect the democracy they have is controlled more and more by the military) there is really no good reason why the crisis seemed to end so quickly, the logical thing here is that the evidence has been twisted by the Colombians to say something it is not. When OEA came with a condemnation to Colombia my feeling is that many leaders think the evidence against Chavez is poppycock, but unfortunately we have a president that is always ready to eat it with gusto. Reading a report from a middle of the road paper from El Salvador I noticed classic cherry picking of quotes, leading me then to believe that Greg Palast is correct here: > **[$300 Million from Venezuela to Colombian Rebels a Fake - Venezuelanalysis](http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3254/)** > > Do you believe this? This past weekend, Colombia invaded Ecuador, killed a guerrilla chief in the jungle, opened his laptop – and what did the Colombians find? A message to Hugo Chavez that he’s sent the FARC guerrillas $300 million – which they’re... > [@](#): > > This past weekend, Colombia invaded Ecuador, killed a guerrilla chief in the jungle, opened his laptop – and what did the Colombians find? A message to Hugo Chavez that he’s sent the FARC guerrillas $300 million – which they’re using to obtain uranium to make a dirty bomb! > > That’s what George Bush tells us. And he got that from his buddy, the strange right-wing President of Colombia, Alvaro Uribe. > > So: After the fact, Colombia justifies its attempt to provoke a border war as a to stop the threat of WMDs! Uh, where have we heard that before? > > The US press snorted up this line about Chavez’ $300 million to “terrorists” quicker than the young Bush inhaling Colombia’s powdered export. > > What the US press did not do is look at the evidence, the email in the magic laptop. (Presumably, the FARC leader’s last words were, “Listen, my password is ….”) > > I read them. While you can read it all in español, here is, in translation, the one and only mention of the alleged $300 million from Chavez is this: > > “… With relation to the 300, which from now on we will call “dossier,” efforts are now going forward at the instructions of the boss to the cojo [slang term for ‘cripple’], which I will explain in a separate note. Let’s call the boss Ángel, and the cripple Ernesto.” > > Got that? Where is Hugo? Where’s 300 million? And 300 what? Indeed, in context, the note is all about the hostage exchange with the FARC that Chavez was working on at the time (December 23, 2007) at the request of the Colombian government. > > Indeed, the entire remainder of the email is all about the mechanism of the hostage exchange. Here’s the next line: > > “To receive the three freed ones, Chavez proposes three options: Plan A. Do it to via of a ‘humanitarian caravan’; one that will involve Venezuela, France, the Vatican[?], Switzerland, European Union, democrats [civil society], Argentina, Red Cross, etc.” > > As to the 300, I must note that the FARC’s previous prisoner exchange involved 300 prisoners. Is that what the ‘300’ refers to? ¿Quien sabe? Unlike Uribe, Bush and the US press, I won’t guess or make up a phastasmogoric story about Chavez spending money he doesn’t even have. > > To bolster their case, the Colombians claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that the mysterious “Angel” is the code name for Chavez. But in the memo, Chavez goes by the code name … Chavez. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/6 "2008-03-11T08:26:11Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Reading a report from a middle of the road paper from El Salvador I noticed classic cherry picking of quotes, leading me then to believe that Greg Palast is correct here: > **[$300 Million from Venezuela to Colombian Rebels a Fake - Venezuelanalysis](http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3254/)** > > Do you believe this? This past weekend, Colombia invaded Ecuador, killed a guerrilla chief in the jungle, opened his laptop – and what did the Colombians find? A message to Hugo Chavez that he’s sent the FARC guerrillas $300 million – which they’re... [/QUOTE] Interesting. I will withold opinion until further information with one exception: the notion that the country with the largest oil reserves in the western hemisphere (6th largest in the world) “doesn’t have” $300 million dollars is preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2008, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-the-border-crisis-calms-down/440916/7 "2008-03-11T08:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] Interesting. I will withold opinion until further information with one exception: the notion that the country with the largest oil reserves in the western hemisphere (6th largest in the world) “doesn’t have” $300 million dollars is preposterous. [/QUOTE] Of course, however I do think the number does fit more logically with the number of hostages released. Or 300 items offered in exchange for the hostages. I think though that Palast is coming from the angle that there is an opposition and the USA constantly looking for evidence for the amount of money used for the purpose Colombia is talking about, I do not think such an amount would be easy to hide in these circumstances and specially when Chavez much rather use it to get the economy going and not losing power.