# Ashamed of being an American? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2018, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833 "2018-07-13T08:36:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Profound\_Gibberish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Profound\_Gibberish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profound_Gibberish)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/21 "2018-07-13T16:18:40Z")
Take a step back to December 6, 1941. The American South was full-tilt Jim Crow segregation, Hispanics ostracized across the country. Black towns had been pillaged and burned by whites even outside of the South. Eugenics “scientifically” told everyone that if you aren’t white you aren’t right. Poll taxes and poll tests kept the non-whites from voting. All of this resting on a foundation of willful genocide of Native Americans. America was headed toward an officially racially segregated country on 12/6/41. America only became a nation espousing liberty because of the power vacuum after World War 2 and the horrors that unbridled hate exposed. Ultimately, we are a deeply racist and xenophobic country at heart and constantly lie to ourselves that we are not. The memories of WW2 have faded from our gnats-length memory but the hatred and resentment of non-whites by whites remains. A new generation of people will ultimately learn what a government run by hate and fear will bring. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/22 "2018-07-13T16:46:06Z")
I do regret the decision to immigrate to the US and become a citizen. This is not the country I thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/23 "2018-07-13T17:05:41Z")
Count me as another who doesn’t understand being “proud” of my country. Whatever positive things it has brought to the world, I had nothing to do with them. Also not proud of my local sports teams, my high school, or the fact that Harry Truman lived down the road. Accidents of birth or coincidences of circumstance are nothing to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/24 "2018-07-13T17:32:42Z")
> [@Profound\_Gibberish](#): > > Take a step back to December 6, 1941. The American South was full-tilt Jim Crow segregation, Hispanics ostracized across the country. Black towns had been pillaged and burned by whites even outside of the South. Eugenics “scientifically” told everyone that if you aren’t white you aren’t right. Poll taxes and poll tests kept the non-whites from voting. All of this resting on a foundation of willful genocide of Native Americans. America was headed toward an officially racially segregated country on 12/6/41. America only became a nation espousing liberty because of the power vacuum after World War 2 and the horrors that unbridled hate exposed. Ultimately, we are a deeply racist and xenophobic country at heart and constantly lie to ourselves that we are not. The memories of WW2 have faded from our gnats-length memory but the hatred and resentment of non-whites by whites remains. A new generation of people will ultimately learn what a government run by hate and fear will bring. No, the Civil Rights movement came out of returning African-American GIs who were treated with a measure of dignity and as heroes in the European theater, but came home to segregation. You combine that with rising education levels due to the GI bill but limited economic opportunities after graduation and it lit a powder keg. The Civil Rights movement wasn’t ‘Look what Hitler did, we can’t allow ourselves to go down that path.’ It was ‘I shot more Germans than I can count, I almost got my head blown off for the privilege, the freaking French and British gave me wine, songs and kisses and I come back here and can’t ride in a train next to a white dude. I also have a four-year degree and I have to get a job at a soda fountain, while Hillbilly McGee who dropped out of 8th grade gets a good factory job? That’s all kinds of messed up.’ ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/25 "2018-07-13T17:44:59Z")
The U.S. has done many things that we should not be proud of, like the war in Vietnam, or allowing slavery and Jim Crow. But there is a lot to feel good about too, imho. Scientific advancements, defeating Fascism, creating jazz, ALF… And, in as much as I vote, pay taxes, speak out on issues, and volunteer, I think that success has just a little to do with me. I am not a fan of Mr Trump, but he’ll be gone in a few years. Taking a big picture view, he doesn’t change much. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/26 "2018-07-13T17:46:23Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > \ > > Cite? You know \*\*Wilson \*\*was pretty fucking racist for his time which was a really racist time. He managed to some good despite this. For his day Wilson was not as bad a s Trump for these days but directly compared without the filter of time period, he was a bigger racist. \*\*Nixon \*\*was a slimy paranoid crooked man that passed somehow did a lot of good things. [National Environmental Policy Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Policy_Act) established the [Environmental Protection Agency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Protection_Agency), [Clean Air Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_(United_States)) of 1970 [Clean Water Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Water_Pollution_Control_Act) [Endangered Species Act of 1973](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_Species_Act_of_1973) established the [Office of Minority Business Enterprise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Business_Development_Agency) extension of the [Voting Rights Act of 1965](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965) [Strategic Arms Limitation Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Arms_Limitation_Talks) (SALT I) [1972 Nixon visit to China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Nixon_visit_to_China) Now I’m not sure who is a worse person Trump or Nixon, but I would actually rather have Nixon in office. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/27 "2018-07-13T17:46:57Z")
I’m not at all ashamed to be an American. I am ashamed of some of my fellow Americans, and, to some extent, of America itself. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/28 "2018-07-13T18:04:58Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Now I’m not sure who is a worse person Trump or Nixon, but I would actually rather have Nixon in office. IMHO, Nixon’s moldering remains would make a better president, so I guess we’re in agreement there. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/29 "2018-07-13T18:30:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > ashamed to be an American. …where at least you know you’re free… ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/30 "2018-07-13T18:34:05Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > We’re in bed with some sketchy people, we’re spying on our own citizens, and… Trump and his backers. > > Anyone not particularly proud to be an American? Anyone ashamed? How long have you felt that way? I’m proud to be an American. Administrations come and go. Adminstrations =/= America. I’m not one to talk about politics to real life life people. Nothing’s changed. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/31 "2018-07-13T18:45:20Z")
I am German. A lot of repugnant things have been done by Germans and in the name of Germany, and yet I do not feel ashamed, because I am not responsible for these things. Neither do I see any reason to feel proud about the achievements Germans have made in science, sports or the arts, because - sadly - I am not responsible for those either. So when you disagree with the policies of the current US government, the only valid reason to be ashamed (in my humble opinion) would be that you somehow have supported it or have failed to do something that you could have done to prevent it. Oh - and to you travelers. If I meet Americans who have taken it upon themselves to venture beyond the borders of God’s own country, it is not my first assumption that they belong to it’s pro-Trump half. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/32 "2018-07-13T19:00:06Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/33 "2018-07-13T20:43:33Z")
I’m not ashamed of being American, sure our problems get a lot of discussion but there plenty of worse places in the world. And at least we are free to discuss and criticize those problems ad nauseam. And I don’t know why Americans in general should be ashamed, more than half (of those who voted) didn’t vote for Trump, and the majority have nothing to do with federal government or it’s decisions at all. Same reason I’m not upset with your average Russian, Iranian, or North Korean. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/34 "2018-07-13T20:56:43Z")
In about two weeks, I’m going to Europe. It’s my first trip across the ocean, and it’s something I’ve wanted to do all my life. I really wish I’d done it back when Obama was President. I’m not really looking forward to being an American over there, right now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/35 "2018-07-13T21:07:49Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But I do strongly hope that there’s a long, hard thunk after Trump gets out of office for how things need to change to make sure that we don’t end up here again. I’d like to believe that. But I was hoping the same thing would happen after Bush got out of office. And all that happened was the Republicans looked for somebody worse to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/36 "2018-07-13T21:12:33Z")
I’m not ashamed, but I am bitterly disappointed with many of my fellow countrymen. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/37 "2018-07-13T21:34:49Z")
I’m ashamed. Our country is evil. I can’t even try to defend it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/38 "2018-07-14T00:11:37Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Yep. We’re going to London in the fall, and I suggested that I could wear a burqa to keep people from noticing we’re Americans. Husband threatened to wear a MAGA hat. A year and a half ago (Feb. 2016) **Tom Scud** and I went to Mexico on vacation. At the gate in Chicago, there was a blonde woman wearing a MAGA T-shirt. On a flight to Cancun. :eek: I was embarrassed on her behalf. I was posting about it on Facebook and friends were suggesting that I should record her interaction with Mexican immigration on arrival. I probably should have, but at that moment part of me was worried that **Tom Scud** , who was born in Lebanon, would have a hard time getting back into the country. (The was right after the initial implementation of Travel Ban 1.0.) I spend enough time and energy trying to help mitigate the effects of boneheaded American policies on actual human beings that I don’t feel embarrassed to be American, but I sure do wish more policymakers in the current administration would pull their heads out of their asses and, you know, think about the long term, or even next week. ---
**Author:** ![Kennedy1960](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@Kennedy1960](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kennedy1960)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/39 "2018-07-14T11:22:22Z")
Not ashamed, no. Our country has a bad leader, but that doesn’t make her, or us, bad by association. We’ve also been through much darker periods. A time not too long ago when slavery was legal, accepted and even encouraged; a time not too long ago when Black Americans were assaulted with fire hoses and a good chunk of the public supported it. Trump to me is not even the worst (Jackson anyone?). Trump holds a lower approval rating in his second year than any other President before him. Last I checked only 39% of the public approves of his job. That means over 60% of our people do not support him. The majority of our nation are good people who do not hate and who simply want to live. And even with the checkered spots in our nation’s past, and even with the dubious present, we also have much to be proud of in our past, and we’ll have more to be proud of in our future. I focus on the good, not the bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kennedy1960](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@Kennedy1960](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kennedy1960)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833/40 "2018-07-14T11:35:18Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You know \*\*Wilson \*\*was pretty fucking racist for his time which was a really racist time. He managed to some good despite this. For his day Wilson was not as bad a s Trump for these days but directly compared without the filter of time period, he was a bigger racist. > > \*\*Nixon \*\*was a slimy paranoid crooked man that passed somehow did a lot of good things. > > [National Environmental Policy Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Policy_Act) > > established the [Environmental Protection Agency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Protection_Agency), > > [Clean Air Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_(United_States)) of 1970 > > [Clean Water Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Water_Pollution_Control_Act) > > [Endangered Species Act of 1973](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_Species_Act_of_1973) > established the [Office of Minority Business Enterprise](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Business_Development_Agency) > extension of the [Voting Rights Act of 1965](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965) > [Strategic Arms Limitation Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Arms_Limitation_Talks) (SALT I) > [1972 Nixon visit to China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Nixon_visit_to_China) > Now I’m not sure who is a worse person Trump or Nixon, but I would actually rather have Nixon in office. Nixon was a highly intelligent man who was a victim of psychological complexes which handicapped him from being a great leader, and those complexes were brought to the fore by being President during a very tortured, dark and divided time. Nixon didn’t create many of these divisions; he inherited them. While he left the Presidency in disgrace and helped deepen a lack of trust in our officials, the country was a cleaner, less divided place in 1974 than it had been in 1969. He was a man who was subject to the bigotry of his times and yet I do not believe he made that private bigotry a part of domestic policy. Nixon was a man who watched his mother suffer taking care of his dying brothers because they lacked health insurance and believed in and advocated for a more left wing form of universal healthcare than we have even now. Trump advocates for the dissolution of “Obamacare” regardless of how many millions that would kill simply to rob his predecessor of his legacy. Trump is a dumb man who relishes in being dumb; who is proud of being ignorant. He is the “Ugly American” stereotype made flesh. He came into office during a relatively okay time in this country and did his best to deepen existing divisions as well as create all new ones. He emboldened the bigoted and the racist members of our society to come out into the light and has helped to semi-normalize neo-Nazism. Nixon damaged the Presidency, which honestly was in need of a check on its growing power. More than the Presidency he damaged his own legacy. Trump has damaged, perhaps irreparably, America’s reputation, our prestige, and is tossing away our hard won soft power and influence. He literally promotes the idea of locking children in camps simply because they are Mexican. Nixon was a flawed man. Trump is evil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashamed-of-being-an-american/817833.md?page=3)