# Ashcroft declares all out war on the REAL threat to America! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645 "2004-04-06T23:42:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/41 "2004-04-07T14:03:12Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Pentecostals don’t dance? Say what? Ever read the book of Acts? What on earth do I see people at my church do at pretty much every single service? It ain’t bowling they’re doin in the aisles, hon. I was raised in Pentecostal Church of God and Assemblies of God Churches. What’s going on in the aisles is “dancin’ in the Spirit” and it ain’t got nuthin’ to do with the kind of dancing **laigle** is talking about. > [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > And if you’ll actually look into what they believe, you’ll find that they don’t oppose dancing per se, just the stuff that it can lead to (dunno about you but I’ve seen more than just handholding and fruit punch at the dances I’ve been to). > > _I’m_ not opposed to dancing, nor am I a member of the AoG denomination, but from what I’ve seen of “dancing” these days, I’d just as soon not look like a hooker on the dance floor, so I can understand why some denominations would be opposed to going to social dances. It’s not that dancing is bad (who could make an argument against ballet with a straight face?), it’s just that the particular brand of dancing we’re seeing today is, well, disgusting. From my experience, I’d say yes they are. I wasn’t allowed to go to school dances back in the late 70s and early 80s. The church never sponsored a dance. I couldn’t even go to the damned roller rink or movies. “Freakin’” and Dirty Dancing were not the issues. It is a secular vs sacred thing. Pentecostals are very much into the idea of separating themselves from secular society. Up until the 70s when Jerry Falwell and ilk started their rabble rousing, Pentecostals often wouldn’t even vote because they were focused on being pure and holy and thought voting was even too much involvement with the world. > [@](#): > > If modern dancing ever became a bit more modest, I imagine they’d partake again. Kinda hard to jitterbug to Eminem, though. Country bars, the VFW and the American Legion still have jitterbug and two-step dancing. The pentecostals aren’t there either. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/42 "2004-04-07T14:11:02Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Since when did Dubya care about elections? :-p Silly me! What the HECK was I thinkin’? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/43 "2004-04-07T14:18:06Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > I’m probably going to regret posting this but here goes … > > **He is a devout Pentacostal, and I’ve known a few of those in my day. Dancing isn’t the only no no.** > And if you’ll actually look into what they believe, you’ll find that they don’t oppose dancing per se, just the stuff that it can lead to (dunno about you but I’ve seen more than just handholding and fruit punch at the dances I’ve been to). _I’m_ not opposed to dancing, nor am I a member of the AoG denomination, but from what I’ve seen of “dancing” these days, \*\*I’d just as soon not look like a hooker on the dance floor, \*\* so I can understand why some denominations would be opposed to going to social dances. It’s not that dancing is bad (who could make an argument against ballet with a straight face?), \*\*it’s just that the particular brand of dancing we’re seeing today is, well, disgusting. \*\* How could I expect someone to take me seriously when I talk about how God has changed my life, when there is absolutely nothing in my life that shows that there has been a change? I couldn’t, and apparently lots of other people couldn’t as well, and that’s why they choose to abstain from certain things. **If modern dancing ever became a bit more modest, I imagine they’d partake again. Kinda hard to jitterbug to Eminem, though.** I’m not one for grinding either, but there are a gazillion other ways to dance. Modern music isn’t just Eminem and J-Lo. There’s salsa, jitterbug (which, incidently, can be pretty sexual when done well) and good ol’ ballroom dancing is making a bit of a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/44 "2004-04-07T14:22:49Z")
Well, what can you expect from a guy who [anointed himself with Crisco](http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101010122-95226,00.html)? Talk about the perfect collision of fundamentalist Christianity and corporate America. Let’s fight Ashcroft hand over fist, folks! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/45 "2004-04-07T14:24:36Z")
Well, I don’t smoke, gamble or dance either . . . . . . But I make up for it in caffeine consumption. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/46 "2004-04-07T14:26:50Z")
Sorry, I’m fascinated with this post. Every time I read it, I see new things to comment on. > [@](#): > > what on earth do I see people at my church do at pretty much every single service? Dancing like pagans? > [@](#): > > but from what I’ve seen of “dancing” these days, I’d just as soon not look like a hooker on the dance floor What, exactly, does a dancing hooker look like? Is that anything like a dancing bear? > [@](#): > > dunno about you but I’ve seen more than just handholding and fruit punch at the dances I’ve been to People have been getting drunk and dancing for thousands of years. It is a pretty basic thing. I mean, considering that all natural interaction between man and woman is in some way related to sex, this isn’t surprising. What, exactly, would be wrong with a married couple doing a bit o’ bumping and grinding? > [@](#): > > (who could make an argument against ballet with a straight face?) I dunno. Ballet is a celebration of the art of the human body, and is often viewed as sensual and sexual. > [@](#): > > it’s just that the particular brand of dancing we’re seeing today is, well, disgusting. Actually, it is fun. What, you think that bumping and griding and touching bodies is a new invention? Dancing has always been a prime example of sexual display and interaction. Dancing wasn’t invented in 1724 by rich white folk in England. People sinned long before the modern era and its horrors of dance. They even masturbated and looked at porn! (Hey, I had to make this tie into the OP somehow) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/47 "2004-04-07T14:55:25Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I think we’ve moved on to debating how batshit insane Ashcroft is. Ashcroft. The guy who makes his staff meet for prayers every morning, when he’s supposed to be the guy in charge of _making sure no one does stuff like that?_ ---
**Author:** ![Southerner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Southerner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southerner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/48 "2004-04-07T15:01:20Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Vote the bastards out. Vote the bastards out. Let that be your mantra. > > Ashcroft is the most frightening man to ever hold high public office in the United States. He absolutely **knows** what is best for you and for me because God damn well tells him so. > > GWB makes me nauseous; Ashcroft makes my blood run cold. I couldn’t agree more LouisB. If there is going to be another civil war in this country AG john asshat will be the cause of it. This administration is completely out of control. The whole lot of them scare the hell out of me but the AG is pure evil. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/49 "2004-04-07T15:29:52Z")
I don’t drink - I find alcohol to be much too reminiscent of the medicine that I, being an often ill child, was forced to partake. I don’t smoke, both because of the health reasons and the smell. Although I have to admit that cigars do tempt me when I’m in the room with someone toking. I don’t watch a lot of movies because I prefer books. And stories with real plots. 😛 I do listen to some modern music, but only the good ones. I find pop entirely too repetitive for my taste - I memorize tunes very easily, and having “Oops! I Did It Again” on an infinite loop running in one’s subconscious is rather distracting. I don’t watch porn. Heck, modern media is titilliating enough as it is, and being a dirty “old” lady, I don’t need much encouragement to think nasty thoughts. I kind of wish they left more things to the imagination, though. …that said, I’m not sure if I agree with Ashcroft. He is taking things a bit too far, especially considering that there are more important things to worry about. Although I guess the moral leanings of society does have some long-term implications. I’m one of those weird old-fashioned people that believe in faithfulness, self-control, charity, etc. But I keep waffling back and forth on whether someone of similar beliefs should endeavour to enforce them on a nation, or simply strive to keep themselves distinct. (And at the risk of being flamed, I think I should point out that the secular humanists are plenty religious, too - just look at the GDs on the existance of God, evolution, etc. If they were really open to other people’s opinions, the debate wouldn’t have dragged on so long.) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/50 "2004-04-07T15:42:51Z")
Well, aside from the general incredulity and outrage I felt when I discovered that someone was trying to ban consenting adults from engaging in perfectly legal activities, I also noticed this gem in the article yesterday: > [@](#): > > Lam Nguyen’s job is to sit for hours in a chilly, quiet room devoid of any color but gray and look at pornography. This job, which Nguyen does earnestly from 9 to 5, surrounded by a half-dozen other “computer forensic specialists” like him, has become the focal point of the Justice Department’s operation to rid the world of porn. > > In this field office in Washington, 32 prosecutors, investigators and a handful of FBI agents are spending millions of dollars to bring anti-obscenity cases to courthouses across the country for the first time in 10 years. This f—head is spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF MY MONEY trying to exorcise his pathetic neuroses. He has hired a half-dozen people to look at porn all day! WTF!? What are their salaries, I want to know. Aren’t they government employees? Shouldn’t I be able to access that info. somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/51 "2004-04-07T15:45:31Z")
> [@dotchan](#): > > But I keep waffling back and forth on whether someone of similar beliefs should endeavour to enforce them on a nation, or simply strive to keep themselves distinct. There should be no waffling on this. It is not your place to tell me, an adult, how to spend my free time. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/52 "2004-04-07T15:49:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Lam Nguyen’s job is to sit for hours in a chilly, quiet room devoid of any color but gray and look at pornography. This job, which Nguyen does earnestly from 9 to 5, surrounded by a half-dozen other “computer forensic specialists” like him, has become the focal point of the Justice Department’s operation to rid the world of porn. Mrs. Nguyen: “Tough day at the office, Lammie?” Lam: “Yeah . . . Fer chrissakes, Gladys, put on a flannel nightie and get some curlers in yer hair, willya?” ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/53 "2004-04-07T15:59:19Z")
> [@](#): > > (And at the risk of being flamed, I think I should point out that the secular humanists are plenty religious, too - just look at the GDs on the existance of God, evolution, etc. If they were really open to other people’s opinions, the debate wouldn’t have dragged on so long.) The definition of “religious” is not “holding a belief strongly and not being open to other opinions”, except in joking terms like “I hate brocolli religiously”. Nor does being open to other people’s opinions mean you cannot argue for another position, or remain unconvinced by a certain argument. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/54 "2004-04-07T17:09:52Z")
Aren’t Republicans supposed to be for less gov’t intrusion into people private lives? What’s more private that the materials one uses to wank? If it’s all consenting adults, I would think that a true Republican would stand up to Ashcroft and say “Get out of American’s private lives.” Where are these true Republicans? It’s quite the shame how a perfectly good political party has been perverted by these religious right closet panty-sniffers. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/55 "2004-04-07T17:16:53Z")
Well, there’s the problem with most Republicans. They are right wing, but they are also Christian. I guess it is kinda an internal debate. :-p There are a lot of Libertarians who fit your bill, though. The real problem with pornography is this: Over 3/4ths of Americans claim they are Christian (the number of practicing is quite lower). When someone says, in public, “pornography is bad, mmmkay,” they smile nervously and nod. After all, if they protested, they would be admitting their sin, right? Kinda like supporting gay marriage makes you gay, to a lot of people. Anyway, these otherwise decent people get tugged along by the fanatical minority. They don’t have the cajones to stand up and say, no, this isn’t right - because if they did, they would look like a bad parent/figure. A politician who stood up and said that would likely take a hit to his popularity, so no one does. So, even though many Americans enjoy and use porn, they are pretty much all afraid to admit it out loud. It is a pretty stupid situation. ---
**Author:** ![vasyachkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c5a1d2/32.png) [@vasyachkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vasyachkin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/56 "2004-04-08T06:01:51Z")
unfortunately i am not a martyr so i am not going to do it. but i think with bastards like bush and co assasination is the way to go. its just not reasonable to rely on our dimwitted population to vote for the right candidate. democracy does not work. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/57 "2004-04-08T09:55:09Z")
After noticing a certain hand-waving comment in this thread, I’d be quite interested in hearing some serious and valid support to the effect that pornography in general is in immoral – in other words justifying the earlier comment that Ashcroft is trying to improve the moral condition of the US. As far as I can see he is doing nothing of the sort. He is simply imposing his sociopathic standards of behaviour and extremist religious beliefs on the country. He’s going after the core conservative vote, and working further to restrict the rights of Americans. If anything, I would guess a significant decrease in pornography might lead to _more_ immoral behaviour rather than less, since several score million American men who today rely on porn to blow off steam and stress would be left to their own (porn-free) devices. I imagine the next step for Ass-croft would be fashion magazines and the beer industry – and woe be to anyone who subscribes to the Victoria Secret catalogue! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/58 "2004-04-08T11:36:19Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > New Bumper Sticker! > > “Hey John! You’ll get my porn when you pry it from my warm, sticky fingers!” > > MeanJoe Haw haw. Good one! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/59 "2004-04-08T12:19:01Z")
> [@vasyachkin](#): > > assasination is the way to go. When I think of Dick Cheney, I get down on my liberal knees and pray for the life of President Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645/60 "2004-04-08T12:52:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > When I think of Dick Cheney, I get down on my liberal knees and pray for the life of President Bush. Too true. Bush is pig-headed and annoying; Cheney is _terrifying_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashcroft-declares-all-out-war-on-the-real-threat-to-america/238645.md?page=4)