# Ashes into diamonds? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369 "2015-08-30T02:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/21 "2015-08-30T19:32:25Z")
And to be perfectly clear, synthetic diamonds are in every sense real, actual diamonds, chemically identical to the things that de Beers tries to get you to buy (except that the synthetic ones are usually higher quality). They are not to be confused with simulated diamonds, which are other materials which happen to superficially resemble diamonds (cubic zirconia, quartz, cut glass, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/22 "2015-08-30T19:41:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > (except that the synthetic ones are usually higher quality) Last time I looked, I got the impression that there was a limit to the size you could get in a lab, and it was impossible to get a white diamond. The synthetic sellers also seemed very reluctant to discuss the clarity of the synthetics. What’s the current state of the art in the four C’s? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/23 "2015-08-30T19:55:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Or a widower could use his late wife as part of the engagement ring for the new wife. > 😃 I think I saw that movie. It didn’t end well for… well, everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/24 "2015-08-30T20:25:26Z")
I don’t think there’s any upper limit to size with vapor deposition-- You just have to be more patient. If there is an upper limit, it’s large enough not to matter, since I’ve seen synthetic gem-quality colorless diamonds the size of golf balls, and while there are a few natural ones that size, they’re hardly what one could consider on the market. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/25 "2015-08-30T21:06:21Z")
I’m still in awe of the high temperature high pressure method. To put the earlier numbers in more picturesque terms, imagine one of the largest, heaviest diesel locomotives working today. Then imagine two of them, and their entire weight concentrated on one square inch. And then the thing being thus squeezed being heated to a temperature much hotter than molten iron. And then being left that way for six to nine months! This is truly geological type stuff, not your ordinary wine press! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/26 "2015-08-30T21:55:21Z")
In Arthur Machen’s short story, [_The Inmost Light_](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25016/25016-h/25016-h.htm#Page_245), the protagonist captures his wife’s soul in a synthetic opal of great size and beauty. The results for her were… not good. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/27 "2015-08-31T01:02:40Z")
The joke on sci.chem a decade ago when this LifeGems story broke was to hurry up and start feeding grandma carbon 13, then after the LifeGems process, you can see how much of a positron emitter the gem made from her was. Or wasn’t if you doubted the process. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/28 "2015-08-31T01:45:54Z")
Aren’t all industrial synthetic diamonds yellow? Something about nitrogen contamination … ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/29 "2015-08-31T02:01:11Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wikipedia quotes them as claiming that they can make about 50 1-ct diamonds from the average cremated body. Accounting for losses from the extraction and purification processes, that’s about 10 grams of pure carbon. I would have to question the veracity of the Wikipedia quotes. Since 50 1-ct diamonds would weigh exactly 10 grams, the losses from the extraction and purification process are zero? Even if we accept the zero loss through processing, using **Fear Itself** ’s estimate of 5 Lbs of cremated remains, 10 grams of carbon would be 0.44%, more than the Magnesium content (which is reported), so I suspect very low carbon content. Furthermore, per **Fear Itself** ’s cite, > [@](#): > > I have asked another source, namely an Chemist from the [Allexperts.com](http://Allexperts.com) site to comment on the toxicity. > > He said: > > I would not eat it or snort it, but otherwise, except for high calcium and phosphate, you might think it was just high phosphate dirt **without the carbon**. I think the metals may be a bit high but I would have to do some calculations to see how high. One question is do these “remains” include teeth, fabric, or jewellery? Toxicity, you would not dump a ton of it in the river, but otherwise, it would not be a concern. > > Expert: Henry Boyter > > ……….So there you go. Emphasis mine. While I will accept that there is some carbon in cremated remains, [this site](http://www.cremationdiamondreport.com/) reports that it is truly only a trace amount > [@](#): > > … the very cremation process itself burns virtually all of the carbon. The result is a diamond which, by the admission of the patents, contains extremely minuscule amounts of carbon from a loved one that is measured in PPB (or parts per billion)… So it would appear that there is carbon in the cremated remains, but very little. > [@](#): > > It’s a synthetic diamond. Some synthetics can actually have hardness and other properties superior to natural diamonds, but most of those properties have industrial rather than aesthetic value. I believe most synthetics end up in industrial applications and natural diamonds are still the most valued as gems. Actually, synthetic gem quality diamonds are identified as being too perfect. That is, they have clarity and brightness that exceed the highest quality natural diamonds. It is true that they do make synthetic industrial diamonds (there is a facility in Arkansas, I believe), but they intentionally introduce impurities to keep them from being gem quality. That is, they make an extra effort to prevent them from being gem quality. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/30 "2015-08-31T03:23:29Z")
The early pressure-generated “cultured diamonds” were yellow–but still pretty and clear–but at least in theory the color issue can be overcome at some expense. The ones made by the other method I’ve heard of, which I guess was vapor deposition, were absolutely perfect. DeBeers soon declared that what we were supposed to want were natural diamonds with flaws. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/31 "2015-08-31T04:38:25Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The early pressure-generated “cultured diamonds” were yellow–but still pretty and clear–but at least in theory the color issue can be overcome at some expense. > > The ones made by the other method I’ve heard of, which I guess was vapor deposition, were absolutely perfect. DeBeers soon declared that what we were supposed to want were natural diamonds with flaws. :rolleyes: I guess sparklie-warkily isn’t important cutting concrete, just so the diamonds are hardest. I wonder if you could encase a set of chromosomes in a diamond, as a cheap alternative to cryogenics? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/32 "2015-08-31T06:21:35Z")
Obligatory Vodka advert. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PokkLUKUH-A/hqdefault.jpg "Smirnoff Vodka - Diamond") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PokkLUKUH-A) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/33 "2015-08-31T06:42:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I believe most synthetics end up in industrial applications and natural diamonds are still the most valued as gems. And you can thank DeBeers for that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/34 "2015-08-31T08:04:00Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > In Arthur Machen’s short story, [_The Inmost Light_](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25016/25016-h/25016-h.htm#Page_245), the protagonist captures his wife’s soul in a synthetic opal of great size and beauty. The results for her were… not good. Okay, _that_ was… a thing, I guess. But at least now I think I know where Jim Theis got his ending for _The Eye of Argon_. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/35 "2015-08-31T10:21:42Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > In Arthur Machen’s short story, [_The Inmost Light_](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25016/25016-h/25016-h.htm#Page_245), the protagonist captures his wife’s soul in a synthetic opal of great size and beauty. The results for her were… not good. In return, I offer you Bob Shaw’s [The Light of Other Days](http://www.freesfonline.de/authors/Bob_Shaw.html). Only very tangentially related to the topic, but a short story about “slow glass” – glass that slows the speed of light so enormously that it retains visions of the past. Shaw wrote two other stories on the same theme and then later a sort of novella that tied them all together. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/36 "2015-08-31T14:03:12Z")
Natural diamonds are the most valued as gems, but that’s entirely due to propaganda by de Beers. But then again, the value of diamonds as gems _at all_ is almost entirely due to that same propaganda. Natural diamonds aren’t nearly as rare as they’re made out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/37 "2015-08-31T18:24:46Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > How about some abrasive powder. It would be nice to earn one’s keep. Sounds like having to walk to school uphill both ways. (Shakes cane) “In my day, missy, I had to scrub the sink before and after I died!” Personally, I refuse to do any housework after my death. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/38 "2015-08-31T22:40:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In return, I offer you Bob Shaw’s [The Light of Other Days](http://www.freesfonline.de/authors/Bob_Shaw.html). Only very tangentially related to the topic, but a short story about “slow glass” – glass that slows the speed of light so enormously that it retains visions of the past. Shaw wrote two other stories on the same theme and then later a sort of novella that tied them all together. I remember that story, but had forgotten the name. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/39 "2015-08-31T22:51:30Z")
Did you know that this whole process was filmed over half a century ago? Yup, [it’s even found in the IMDB](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052080/combined). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369/40 "2015-09-10T04:29:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Natural diamonds are the most valued as gems, but that’s entirely due to propaganda by de Beers. But then again, the value of diamonds as gems _at all_ is almost entirely due to that same propaganda. Natural diamonds aren’t nearly as rare as they’re made out to be. Diamonds aren’t rare at all. If they were especially rare, they wouldn’t be advertised to the masses as they are. Diamonds are supposed to be the _hardest_ gem. They represent durability. Of course, even that is kind of sillly. The difference is hardness between a diamond and a sapphire is an academic distinction most of the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ashes-into-diamonds/729369.md?page=3)