# Asian electorate drifts to the right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340 "2020-09-23T19:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/41 "2020-09-24T19:37:18Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > the IQ tests purport to measure something innate and are in my view and those of many biologists and psychologists very dubious. Do you have a cite for this because it is my understanding that psychologists believe in the concept of IQ for the most part and they also believe that a significant portion of IQ is heritable > [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > SATs measure English and math skills that reflect nothing more than being well-read and paying attention in math class. Yes, but in this case, the SHSAT skims the top 1% or so for specialized high schools like stuyvesant. And there is a racial disparity so some people assume it must be racism. > [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > If anyone really thought that access to test prep was the issue then they would propose giving vouchers to low-income blacks for the test prep courses, which I’m sure the Asian families could care less about. But this is a canard - the only thing that you will accept is a racial quota in which students who cannot meet objective standards are admitted based on their race. They do this in NYC. it’s not to every black kid but hundreds of black kids get free kaplan test prep without the promised result. You can’t teach math fluency in 6 weeks. You can’t cram years of reading into 6 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/42 "2020-09-24T20:09:04Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I would once again point to how immigrants move up quite a bit within one or two generations. YeahBut … this is almost the textbook definition of [selection bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias). Who leaves their home, their family, their friends, and just about everything else they know and love … in an effort to make a better life for their children ? That would be like me saying that the people I’ve met while running triathlons seem to be more physically fit than those I’ve encountered while browsing the aisles at Wal-Mart 😉 ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/43 "2020-09-24T20:39:08Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Who leaves their home, their family, their friends, and just about everything else they know and love … in an effort to make a better life for their children ? > > That would be like me saying that the people I’ve met while running triathlons seem to be more physically fit than those I’ve encountered while browsing the aisles at Wal-Mart 😉 I thought the claim was that there is not true upward mobility. Are you saying that immigrant’s are not encountering “true” upward mobility? What constitutes “true” upward mobility? The fact of the matter is that newcomers to this country with little to no wealth, who frequently barely speak the language, and low earning power still produce children that jump ses classes every generation for the first generation or two. Could it be better, sure. We should absolutely get rid of things like legacy preferences and increase the estate tax. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/44 "2020-09-24T20:48:39Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > > [@RitterSport](#): > > > > Is this what you want to talk about in this thread? It’s your thread, so go ahead. I thought this one would be about why Asians are drifting to the right (if they are at all – looks like they’ve drifted SIGNIFICANTLY left since 1992, according to one of the posts above). > > > > If so, have at it. > > Yes, we drifted significantly to the left since reagan. And in recent years we have been drifting to the right. It’s not because we find trump attractive. And it’s not the economy. I think you are reading way too much into it. Aside from Vietnamese Americans and Indian Americans, it appears that the right hasn’t made much headwinds at all when comparing 2012 to 2020. For Japanese and Korean Americans the numbers for 2012 look the same as 2020 - while in 2016, they went more Democrat and less Republican. For Filipino Americans, they are far more pro-Democrat and less fond of Republicans in 2020 than they were in 2012. Chinese Americans, interestingly are less pro-Democrat, but that hasn’t translated into them being pro-Republican (whose identification is flat from 2012 to 2020) ---
**Author:** ![razordance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@razordance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/razordance)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/45 "2020-09-24T20:53:00Z")
No, there is no longer any general consensus among psychologists that there exists a general intelligence factor “g” which IQ tests can measure. Check out Howard Gardner’s theory of multiple intelligences: [Theory of multiple intelligences - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences) When I clicked on this thread, I thought it was about some kind of electoral shift IN ASIA. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/46 "2020-09-24T21:00:24Z")
> [@razordance](#): > > When I clicked on this thread, I thought it was about some kind of electoral shift IN ASIA. Me too. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/47 "2020-09-24T21:03:35Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I thought the claim was that there is not true upward mobility. Are you saying that immigrant’s are not encountering “true” upward mobility? What constitutes “true” upward mobility? > > The fact of the matter is that newcomers to this country with little to no wealth, who frequently barely speak the language, and low earning power still produce children that jump ses classes every generation for the first generation or two. You’re sort of doubling down on your selection bias, though. I could point to the success of the people in AP classes in the worst schools in the poorest cities in the nation, too. But that would basically be sophistry. I’d be cherry-picking. As a general rule, I suspect that there is _nearly_ no true upward mobility (ie, appallingly little) across broad (and randomized) swaths of poor Americans. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/48 "2020-09-24T21:26:49Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > What cites are they bringing? I don’t think there’s been a cite for either claim. The only thing that’s been cited is your 538 article that says that economic issues are the area where Asians are the most aligned with the GOP and where Democratic or progressive support is the most fractured. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/49 "2020-09-24T23:00:54Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > The crit race theory arm of the Democeatic crowd calls us “white adjacent.” Which is frustrating because many Republicans definitely think of us as minorities. The only issue I have with the term is that it’s reductivist like most terms used regarding race. Many people who are not European-American are treated as such in many aspects of their lives, especially many Caucasians and Latinos, while still facing challenges or outright prejudice in other aspects. If you’re talking about being stopped by police, I can see why people would want to use the term “white adjacent” (even if the term itself seems weird) if for some reason East Asians, for example, were lumping themselves in with Black people as fellow Persons of Color, but that same calculus wouldn’t apply if they were recounting how they were taunted for their looks while growing up. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/50 "2020-09-24T23:06:54Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > If you’re talking about being stopped by police, I can see why people would want to use the term “white adjacent” (even if the term itself seems weird) if for some reason East Asians, for example, were lumping themselves in with Black people as fellow Persons of Color, but that same calculus wouldn’t apply if they were recounting how they were taunted for their looks while growing up. Yes, it’s almost as if the totem pole of privilege where you can assign a [numerical score](https://www.theantiracisteducator.com/post/the-anti-racist-educator-white-privilege-test) to every possible group is a ridiculous concept, and some people can be at a disadvantage due to their background or appearance in some contexts but not others. It’s not so great to be black if you are driving a nice car through an overpoliced white suburb. It’s very good to be black if you’re applying to a prestigious university. It’s not so great to be Jewish if you are wearing religious garb and walking down the street at night in a neighborhood with a lot of Farrakhan followers, or trying to establish yourself into the tow truck business in rural Alabama. It’s possibly a benefit to be Jewish if you’re soliciting clients for a law firm. And so on for any given group. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/51 "2020-09-24T23:34:37Z")
As far as affirmative action has concerned, there has never really been a liberal response to the fact that Asians have to score several hundred points higher on the SAT, on average, than black or Hispanic students, to have the same chance of admission…other than, essentially, “Deal with it.” ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/52 "2020-09-25T01:22:04Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think you are reading way too much into it. Aside from Vietnamese Americans and Indian Americans, it appears that the right hasn’t made much headwinds at all when comparing 2012 to 2020. For Japanese and Korean Americans the numbers for 2012 look the same as 2020 - while in 2016, they went more Democrat and less Republican. For Filipino Americans, they are far more pro-Democrat and less fond of Republicans in 2020 than they were in 2012. Chinese Americans, interestingly are less pro-Democrat, but that hasn’t translated into them being pro-Republican (whose identification is flat from 2012 to 2020) It looks like most major asian subgroups have drifted to the right since 2016 do you not see how the slope of the curve changes? I’m not saying it’s armageddon but it is a broad based shift. > [@razordance](#): > > No, there is no longer any general consensus among psychologists that there exists a general intelligence factor “g” which IQ tests can measure. > > Check out Howard Gardner’s theory of multiple intelligences: [Theory of multiple intelligences - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences) > > When I clicked on this thread, I thought it was about some kind of electoral shift IN ASIA. That wasn’t the claim. The claim was “the IQ tests purport to measure something innate and are in my view and those of many biologists and psychologists very dubious.” Do you have a cite for that claim? > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > You’re sort of doubling down on your selection bias, though. > > I could point to the success of the people in AP classes in the worst schools in the poorest cities in the nation, too. But that would basically be sophistry. I’d be cherry-picking. > > As a general rule, I suspect that there is _nearly_ no true upward mobility (ie, appallingly little) across broad (and randomized) swaths of poor Americans. Immigrants compose 15% of Americans. Sure if you define “true” upward mobility to exclude immigrants then upward mobility is lower but just for example, RBG was the daughter of a bookeeper. Not poverty but not rich. Plenty of poor people become middle class from generation to generation. Perhaps expectations have changed but I see plenty of middle class folks who grew up poor and i see a lot of rich folks that grew up middle class. I don’t see as many poor folks that grew up rich. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I don’t think there’s been a cite for either claim. The only thing that’s been cited is your 538 article that says that economic issues are the area where Asians are the most aligned with the GOP and where Democratic or progressive support is the most fractured. I think for the time being and through this elections we will see asian favor democrats by a lot. But there are things going on with the democrats that are driving away asians. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/53 "2020-09-25T01:37:55Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > The only issue I have with the term is that it’s reductivist like most terms used regarding race. Many people who are not European-American are treated as such in many aspects of their lives, especially many Caucasians and Latinos, while still facing challenges or outright prejudice in other aspects. > > If you’re talking about being stopped by police, I can see why people would want to use the term “white adjacent” (even if the term itself seems weird) if for some reason East Asians, for example, were lumping themselves in with Black people as fellow Persons of Color, but that same calculus wouldn’t apply if they were recounting how they were taunted for their looks while growing up. The “white adjacent” concept is being used in education circles to explain why white supremacy isn’t crushing asians into dust the way it’s supposed to. They mistake our success for their failure. Racism can exist at the same time asians succeed. But some people seem to be offended by the notion that asians are doing something different that is leading to success. So they characterize our success in terms of test prep or white adjacency. > [@Velocity](#): > > As far as affirmative action has concerned, there has never really been a liberal response to the fact that Asians have to score several hundred points higher on the SAT, on average, than black or Hispanic students, to have the same chance of admission…other than, essentially, “Deal with it.” I think you are confusing liberals with overly woke SJWs. RBG was a liberal, she sought equality for women, not preferences. She thought women ought to be subject to the draft. She fought for a widower who didn’t get survivor benefits in a world where widows did. She fought for equality for both genders. Now there were a lot of things that were less equal for women than men but she didn’t just fight for women’s rights, she fought for women’s equality. As a liberal my response used to be that affirmative action did not require anti-asian discrimination but after years of overly-woke SJWs telling me that you can’t fight anti-asian discrimination without undermining affirmative action, I’m starting to think maybe they’re right. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/54 "2020-09-25T02:23:20Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > It looks like most major asian subgroups have drifted to the right since 2016 do you not see how the slope of the curve changes? I’m not saying it’s armageddon but it is a broad based shift. You seem to be so focused on the last 4 years that you missed the 4 years before that. What accounted for so many Asian groups shifting so far to the left in 2016 (and Japanese Americans actually shifted even more left in 2018 before reverting to 2016 numbers)? Basing your entire narrative theory on one 4 year time period seems statistically unwise - esp since the previous 4 years it appears to be an opposite shift in every group aside from Chinese Americans. ---
**Author:** ![razordance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@razordance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/razordance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/55 "2020-09-25T05:29:16Z")
What things are there going on with the Democrats, that will drive away Asians? ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/56 "2020-09-25T14:35:24Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You seem to be so focused on the last 4 years that you missed the 4 years before that. What accounted for so many Asian groups shifting so far to the left in 2016 (and Japanese Americans actually shifted even more left in 2018 before reverting to 2016 numbers)? Basing your entire narrative theory on one 4 year time period seems statistically unwise - esp since the previous 4 years it appears to be an opposite shift in every group aside from Chinese Americans. You might as well say I missed the trend from the 30 years before that. Asians have been drifting to the left for a long time now. This shift is significant in that it is a broad reversal for that long running trends among many large subgroups. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/57 "2020-09-25T14:50:03Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > You might as well say I missed the trend from the 30 years before that. Asians have been drifting to the left for a long time now. This shift is significant in that it is a broad reversal for that long running trends among many large subgroups. It’s a 4 year (and some groups a 2 year) slide. It could even be a statistical blip (as they appear to measure every 2 years). If it was a decade long slide in the data, then I would think it relevant. You seem to be making a mountain out of a statistical molehill. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/58 "2020-09-25T14:53:39Z")
> [@razordance](#): > > What things are there going on with the Democrats, that will drive away Asians? Well, that’s the debate. I think it’s clear that there is a shift in direction. I don’t think it’s background noise or random fluctuations. What is causing the shift? I don’t think it’s because asians particularly like donald trump or anything the republicans are doing to attract votes, in fact support for Republicans has not increased very much relative to 2016. It seems to me that the shift is not so much an increase in support for republicans over the last 4 years as it is a decrease in the support for democrats. I think this still translates into overwhelming democratic support on election night but if this election was between a moderate republican like romney and biden, it would be a closer things for many asians. Republican racism has been pretty effective at driving away asian votes, the democrats have recently started counterbalancing republican racism with some racism of their own and for folks at the margin, this might make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/59 "2020-09-25T14:57:43Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It’s a 4 year (and some groups a 2 year) slide. It could even be a statistical blip (as they appear to measure every 2 years). If it was a decade long slide in the data, then I would think it relevant. You seem to be making a mountain out of a statistical molehill. So 538 thinks this is statistically significant but you think it’s just a blip… These numbers reflect far more dramatic shifts than in our electorate at large, would a biden win just be a statistical molehill? Aren’t you just whistling past the graveyard? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/60 "2020-09-25T15:08:53Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > > It’s a 4 year (and some groups a 2 year) slide. It could even be a statistical blip (as they appear to measure every 2 years). If it was a decade long slide in the data, then I would think it relevant. You seem to be making a mountain out of a statistical molehill. > > So 538 thinks this is statistically significant but you think it’s just a blip… > > These numbers reflect far more dramatic shifts than in our electorate at large, would a biden win just be a statistical molehill? Aren’t you just whistling past the graveyard? Let me quote 538: > [@](#): > > That said, it’s important that we don’t read too much into one survey. Only about 250 respondents were in each subgroup, putting the margin of error at +/- 6 percentage points for each group. > [@](#): > > But it’s unclear how strong some of these trends are, according to Linda Vo, a professor in the Department of Asian American Studies at the University of California, Irvine. And then 538 goes into the two groups it thinks it is worth looking at in more detail - Vietnamese Americans and Indian Americans. But is still pretty cautious about it. Sorry, I think you want this to be so and therefore you are reading far more into the data than actually exists. I would like to see pre-2012 polling as well to see if shifts back and forth like this have been common over 4 years periods as approaching certain elections (as I’d imagine the move to the left hasn’t been a steady rise with no bumps. Generally it doesn’t work like that - and I’ve seen this back and forth in my own extended family, including my father who went back and forth between Republican and Democrat in the 1990s before being an almost exclusively Democratic voter after the Iraq War). If a move to the right continues then it may be worth taking seriously, but it seems far too pre-mature to take away that from the data we have on hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340.md?page=4)