# Asian electorate drifts to the right **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340 "2020-09-23T19:46:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/142 "2020-10-01T15:44:17Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > a political party that promotes victimhood mentality and rewards **poor performance, criminality, and failure**? I take it you’re talking about the Republican party, here. I mean, it’s like you’re directly quoting the New York Times in that highlighted bit… ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/143 "2020-10-01T15:52:01Z")
Or ProPublica (with the Texas Tribune): > **[Veteran, war hero, defendant, troll: Man who raised millions for border wall...](https://www.propublica.org/article/veteran-war-hero-defendant-troll)** > > Brian Kolfage, who’s charged in a case where he’s accused of defrauding thousands in a “build the wall” effort, has used personal attacks and misinformation against perceived opponents. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/144 "2020-10-01T17:43:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > BTW everyone can see that I did respond with a quote about the discrimination Hispanics encounter in the US, so your reply here is ignorant X2 indeed. No it wasn’t. People on this board frequently refer to hispanics and jews in the race context. It is irrelevant to the debate that they are an ethnicity rather than a race. I can’t believe you are choosing to die on this ridiculous hill. I don’t think I ever claimed that hispanics don’t encounter discrimination. The notion i am arguing against is the notion that asians should atone to hispanics because hispanics are discriminated and oppressed so much more than asians. Do you have any evidence to support this idea? > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > This is about Harvard (at least that’s all I can read of the article). Harvard is not the only school with affirmative action. Many state schools engage in it as well. WTF? I say that a significant portion of blacks that benefit from aa are not the descendants of slaves. You say I present no evidence. So I present evidence. Now you say my evidence isn’t comprehensive? That is nuts. > [@](#): > > So you think most of the college freshman who are not in the UC system due to Prop 209 were African immigrants? No, I think most of the college freshmen who are not at the top 2 UC schools due to prop 209 are white, followed by hispanics, followed by blacks, only a portion of whom are the descendants of slaves. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Are you attempting to say that the race with the lowest average and median income haven’t been discriminated against? Or even more ridiculous, that they have suffered the same discrimination as the racial group with the highest average and median income? Is that your position? Your argument is very flawed. Income /= level of discrimination. If it did you would have to conclude that whites have suffered more discrimination than asians and jews in this country. I don’t think you would support such a silly notion but I could be wrong. > [@](#): > > What do you feel is deficient in Latin culture then that accounts for this? I don’t know. Probably the same thing that is deficient in white culture that accounts for their lower income? > [@](#): > > If you feel that Asians have suffered as much if not more systemic discrimination that Latin Americans (and you do agree they’ve suffered discrimination, right?) then where is your data? I provided data and you provided counter narrative. Wait, what data have you provided that hispanics have suffered more discrimination than asians? So far I think all you’ve provided is evidence that they have lower income than asians. And as i explained above, if income was evidence of discrimination, then whites suffer greater discrimination than asians in this country. You are making a silly argument. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Do you think Affirmative Action would have occurred if black Americans were making the same as white Americans? No. But they are not and that is in part due to 250 years of slavery and 100 years of segregation. Did hispanics suffer comparable discrimination? > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Are Asians not exceeding whites in academics? Look at the numbers. Compare them to Asian populations. Your counter narratives are not compelling. You don’t understand the words you are using if you are using the term narrative in this sense. There is a difference between logical arguments and narrative. Narrative in the crt sense, does not rely on logic and rational thought. Explain this special form of discrimination that affects asians in a way that hurts them i the workplace but actually helps them in academics? > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Let me also point out that Prop 209 apparently hurt Asians as well: First of all, justice does not require that asians be made better off. Secondly, asians admission rates have dropped in large part because of crowding out by hispanics. If 1st generation hispanics are crowding out 2nd and 3rd generation asians, then good for them, it’s good for society and our country. Third Filipinos are probably the second wealthiest group of asians in america. Their income is way higher than the national average. So based on your theory of income=discrimination, they have suffered less discrimination than whites, perhaps they should be atoning to whites. Finally, the immediate aftermath of prop 209 was an increase in asians. It is only recently that we are seeing drops in asian admissions, once again due to crowding out by hispanics. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > In addition, I will concede that at top tier universities you may find more black immigrant among the black population, but that’s not where most black people go to school (see link). I don’t know how much impact affirmative action has outside of fairly competitive schools. By many measures black women are the most educated group in america. They aren’t getting their degrees at top schools but they are not having problems getting access to college educations. Their problems are associated with getting equal work for equal pay. Even when you hold all things equal, including experience, industry, credentials, everything, black women get significantly paid less than their white male counterparts. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And state universities have affirmative action programs (those are the ones which are subject to court challenges). And those are the ones with growing black enrollment unlike the top tier schools. I thought all schools were subject to court challenges. I mean, how are they suing harvard? Your article doesn’t mention affirmative action. I am not sure how much impact affirmative action is having at less competitive schools. > [@octopus](#): > > It could be cultural. Why would members of a variety of cultures that value entrepreneurship, education, hard work, etc. align with a political party that promotes victimhood mentality and rewards poor performance, criminality, and failure? If the Republicans would work on their messaging a bit they would have a large percentage of Hispanic and Asian voters secured. Especially those who have fled socialist or communist nations. It’s not messaging. It’s not like the democrats have tricked us into thinking the republicans are racist. They should actually stop being racist. I don’t think democrats reward poor performance. I think they are somewhat indifferent to performance. They chalk up differences in performance to racism, a lot of the rest of ti sort of follows from there. A society cannot thrive for very long if this attitude is adopted widely in making policy. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/145 "2020-10-01T17:44:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This likely explains a big part of why, relatively speaking, so few Asian and Hispanic Americans support Trump and the Republicans. I’m pretty sure its the racism. It really bothers a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/146 "2020-10-01T17:47:30Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > No it wasn’t. People on this board frequently refer to hispanics and jews in the race context. It is irrelevant to the debate that they are an ethnicity rather than a race. I can’t believe you are choosing to die on this ridiculous hill. Nope, that was you, now that you finally report to know the difference one can say now: what was the problem on acknowledging that before? In any case that peeve is over. Although one reason why that was pointed out is that it makes more complicated the attempt at interpreting the rates of discrimination Hispanics do have as an ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/147 "2020-10-01T18:04:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, that was you, now that you finally report to know the difference one can say now: what was the problem on acknowledging that before? In any case that peeve is over. Although one reason why that was pointed out is that it makes more complicated the attempt at interpreting the rates of discrimination Hispanics do have as an ethnicity. What the fuck are you talking about? How and why is it relevant that I referred to hispanics as a race rather than ethnicity > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Although one reason why that was pointed out is that it makes more complicated the attempt at interpreting the rates of discrimination Hispanics do have as an ethnicity. So what? Are you saying that this difficulty you are having somehow means that they are actually suffering discrimination sufficient to warrant asian atonement? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/148 "2020-10-01T18:33:49Z")
I thought you said you were done? 😉 > [@damuriajashi](#): > > WTF? > I say that a significant portion of blacks that benefit from aa are not the descendants of slaves. > You say I present no evidence. > So I present evidence. > Now you say my evidence isn’t comprehensive? > That is nuts. It’s not comprehensive, in the slightest. Hell, I was able to read the article today and it says: > [@](#): > > Researchers at Princeton University and the University of Pennsylvania who have been studying the achievement of minority students at 28 selective colleges and universities (including theirs, as well as Yale, Columbia, Duke and the University of California at Berkeley), found that 41 percent of the black students identified themselves as immigrants, as children of immigrants or as mixed race. So not even is it not applicable to most African Americans in university in the US, you hid relevant facts. And it makes your original statement wrong as even just per selective schools: > [@damuriajashi](#): > > But the beneficiaries of race based affirmative action that are the descendants of slaves is a small portion of the overall number of beneficiaries of race based affirmative action. That’s what you said. Your article says you are wrong. And that does not even apply to the vast majority of African-Americans who mostly attend state schools. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > Income /= level of discrimination. Tell me how else you may be able to weigh the different level of discrimination. It seems to me that Black, Hispanic, and Native American low levels of average and median income indicates that the discrimination faced by those groups had a massive impact. If you want to seriously try to argue that Asians have had just as much discrimination, I think the economic success Asians have had, coupled with how significant immigrants make up the Asian American population speak against that hypothesis. In addition: > [@damuriajashi](#): > > what data have you provided that hispanics have suffered more discrimination than asians? So far I think all you’ve provided is evidence that they have lower income than asians. Seems to make a lot of logical sense to me as Latinos have the lowest average and median income. Correlation does not always equal correlation, of course, but it seems to indicate that all of the discrimination that they have suffered, as partially indicated by @GIGObuster post indicates the discrimination has had a massive impact. And considering that all Affirmative Action programs do acknowledge the historic discrimination suffered by Latin Americans, giving them a boost, I think the onus is on you to provide proof that Asians have suffered similar discrimination to Latinos. Where is your data to show these schools are doing Affirmative Action wrong? I mean this is your chance to show all these schools that they have done it wrong and Latinos aren’t more systemically discriminated in this country than Asians!! > [@damuriajashi](#): > > Narrative in the crt sense, does not rely on logic and rational thought. Yes, your narratives are not relying on any logic or rational thought. You have made ridiculous leaps in logic and irrational arguments on the basis of your agenda. Welcome to your made up issues with CRT! > [@](#): > > Explain this special form of discrimination that affects asians in a way that hurts them i the workplace but actually helps them in academics? Do you deny that Asians are higher represented in top universities than they are in management in the workplace? So… you really can’t comprehend how Asians may do better in ways that help with college admissions, but don’t really apply in workplace promotions?! Do you really believe that college admissions determine workplace success (I mean they are looking at two very different things for one - though workplaces generally look at ‘scores’ for the first job and rapidly don’t care afterwards)? I discussed the Harvard lawsuit, talking about personal scores. Those personal scores aren’t usually utilized in universities aside from the Harvards of the world (Hell, most State Schools don’t even have personal interviews). But in the workplace, perceived personal deficiencies will prevent you from getting promoted any day. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > Finally, the immediate aftermath of prop 209 was an increase in asians. It is only recently that we are seeing drops in asian admissions, once again due to crowding out by hispanics. The graph in the article says otherwise (with the exception of UCB, which stayed level, and UCSB which went down and up and down and up and now down). ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/149 "2020-10-01T18:38:52Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I thought you said you were done? You’re right. I shouldn’t let myself get caught up in a debate where logic and rational thought takes second seat to wokeness. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/150 "2020-10-01T18:42:03Z")
Interesting when you claim the Republicans are racist when much of what the left advocates, such as affirmative action, is explicitly racist. Advocating for a colorblind meritocracy is diametrically opposed to advocating for racist policies. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/151 "2020-10-01T18:43:53Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > > I thought you said you were done? > > You’re right. I shouldn’t let myself get caught up in a debate where logic and rational thought takes second seat to wokeness. Oh, you shouldn’t put yourself down like that… but I’d actually say you were putting logic and rational thought in the backseat to your agenda. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/152 "2020-10-01T19:08:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Interesting when you claim the Republicans are racist when much of what the left advocates, such as affirmative action, is explicitly racist. Advocating for a colorblind meritocracy is diametrically opposed to advocating for racist policies. Affirmative action doesn’t have to be racist any more than reparations for japanese internment was racist. When vile anti-asian racism rose in the wake of the “china virus” as an asian, it was clear which side was stoking that racism and which side was objecting to it. Democrats will discriminate against asians to give preferences to others but they won’t stoke violence against us for political gain. It’s one thing to have your children’s efforts and sacrifices at school diminished. It’s another thing to be afraid to send your kids to school. Democrats offer the first type of racism, republicans offer the second type. It’s an easy choice for many asians. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/153 "2020-10-01T20:43:04Z")
Aside from noting the geographic origin of the virus, which was indeed within China, what anti Asian sentiment was promoted by the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/154 "2020-10-02T00:19:39Z")
Where is Kung? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340/155 "2020-10-02T00:47:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Aside from noting the geographic origin of the virus, which was indeed within China, what anti Asian sentiment was promoted by the Republicans? > **[Asian Americans call out Republicans who opposed anti-racism measure](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/asian-americans-call-out-republicans-who-opposed-anti-racism-measure-n1240870)** > > "All it basically says is that Anti-Asian sentiment, racism and discrimination is wrong. ... Yet 164 members of Congress (all Republican) voted against it." And, no, that measure was not just about the stupidity of ignoring international protocols that were agreed about the naming of diseases back in 2015 are being willfully ignored by the Republicans. But it was also about the increase of violence against Asian Americans. > **['We just want to be safe': Hate crimes, harassment of Asian Americans rise...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/20/coronavirus-hate-crimes-against-asian-americans-continue-rise/5212123002/)** > > Law enforcement officials and human rights advocates have seen an increase in hate crimes, harassment and discrimination against Asian Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asian-electorate-drifts-to-the-right/921340.md?page=7)