I also want to point out the following:
Really? So it has either never been discussed here, or it has been brought up but no “liberals” have ever responded to the question?
Or is it that you have never accepted as legit any liberal responses to the question?
I think you are overstating my position:
I’m not saying that this trend is permanent and like your father I was a swing voter until the invasion of Iraq but I had not voted for a Republican since 1996.
As for trends, I think it’s been a fairly steady climb until recently. I don’t think we had an aggregate shift towards the republicans in any election before 2016.
Without the data, you can’t claim this for sure.
The liberal response depends on the liberal but this board’s response (aside from a few posters who acknowledge the discrimination and think it’s wrong) has been:
(a) the discrimination is imaginary and doesn’t really exist. This is not a satisfactory response, if we had this much statistical evidence supporting the existence of discrimination against any other minority group, the folks on the left end of board would have no doubts about the existence of the discrimination.
(b) yes the discrimination exists but it’s not like asians are getting shot in the streets of being enslaved for 400 years… so deal with it. So in an effort to correct injustice perpetrated by white people before asians were allowed to immigrate into the US in large numbers, we will assuage our collective white guilt at the expense of asians.
© the gap in the objective criteria is because of racism and you’re racist for even bringing it up. The accusations of scientific racism are fucking bizarre and it is telling that noone on the left end of this board calls them on this bullshit.
I think those are the primary responses. It doesn’t exist; this form of affirmative action is a necessary social evil to redress even worse previous social evils; and you’re racist.
This is pretty common knowledge to most asians that are involved in politics but on the off chance you are not an asian that is involved in politics, here is some evidence to support the notion that asians have been drifting steadily towards the left since reagan until very recently. Specifically, the hillary/trump election marks the first time in 30 years when support for the democratic candidate has decreased. However, this decrease has been contested by AALDEF’s polling which showed a continued shift to the left when using pollsters that spoke asian langauges.
|Asian-American Voting: NYT Exit Polls (1992-2008), CNN Exit Polls (2012, 2016)*||Republican||Democratic|
So what happened in the 90s? I think it was
- The identification of Republicans as being tougher on communism and Democrats as being squishy began to greatly weaken as foreign policy towards China, Vietnam, and other places that might have provided Asians very wary of the left began to become less distinct across the parties, Democrats moved to the center, and the Cold War ended, making this less of an issue.
- The first wave of extremely anti-immigrant Republicans arose in California, presaging the national obsession that the GOP has with that stance under Trump.
Like everyone else, Asians changed their votes when relevant changes in party platforms happened. It could occur again.
These are Presidential exit polls specifically (and I will note in 2014, the difference was D +12, compared to 4 years earlier 2000 where the difference was D +13 - which is an aggregate shift toward the Republicans by +1) The polling used by 538 is the Asian American Voter Survey which the graphs shown on 538 surveyed by party. Where interestingly enough, Asian American groups surveyed, aside from Chinese Americans, moved further Democratic in 2016 than they were in 2012. Even though Presidential exit polling show more Asians voting for Obama than for Hillary Clinton. So it appears those polls are slightly at odds or Asians identified more as Democrats while liking Hillary Clinton less than Barack Obama.
You are correct that the pro-Democrat share in the 2016 Presidential election moved significantly lower in 2012, but whether that’s due to 2012 being a blip in Obama’s popularity among Asians or antipathy towards Hillary (though Hillary still won the Asian vote by +38) we cannot know yet (we just have polling where quite a bit of Asians have indicated they are undecided in the Presidential race while those who have made a decision are pro-Biden by 50%+).
At this point I’m not sure if you are conceding my point or trying to explain away my evidence.
Do you or don’t you agree that there has been steadily increasing shift to the left for the past few decades that clarifies the significance of recent trends?
I’m saying that the data doesn’t seem to indicate there is a significant realigning shift to the right among Asian Americans. There has indeed been a move to the left over time, which can be seen by observing a 30 year trend. Which is why I indicated that a decade trend in the other direction would be needed in order for me to conclude something else is going on other than statistical noise.
And that Presidential exit polls and polls asking which party do you identify with are not measuring the same information - as noted the party identification went MORE Democratic among most groups in 2016 while the Presidential exit poll went LESS Democratic in 2016. So those two polls are measuring different things and had different outcomes.
And I do believe we need at least one more election to make sure 2012 isn’t an outlier. As the numbers go: -20, -5, +13, +12, +27, +47, +38
Well I guess everyone can apply their own standards of evidence. I think that breaking a decades long trend of steadily moving to the left is significant. I suppose ymmv.
That’s fucking awful. Just because as a group, they’re economically and educationally successful and generally not as overtly discriminated against does NOT make them part of the majority.
However, their group status doesn’t play into the Left/Democratic party narrative about oppressed and persecuted minorities either, and in fact, is a fairly powerful counter to it. So there’s that angle I suppose.
It’s worse than that actually. They pretend asians are actually white and benefit from white supremacy so they can explain away their success and continue to believe that racism explains everything.
It’s almost like asians are being racist by not letting white supremacy impoverish them. Or that somehow asian success means that racism doesn’t exist or that america isn’t built on a white supremacist superstructure.
Critical race theory tells them that it is impossible for any large group to overcome racism and white supremacy in america and yet model minorities do it. So they have to rationalize the inconsistency that asian academic success poses. It is not possible in their world that asians have a culture that makes it easier for them to overcome white supremacy and racism in academics. They feel like this is an insult to all other races, as if asian culture is a wagging finger blaming other minorities for their inability to overcome white supremacy and racism.
They ignore the possibility that asians have been able to overcome racism and white supremacy through extraordinary effort and painful sacrifice on a communitywide basis because their culture gives them the same faith in the power of education that the woke SJW orthodoxy gives them in the power of racism.
It’s not easy to fight racism from the far right and racism from the far left. especially thees days when everyone seems to be running to extremes.
You’re misunderstanding both critical race theory and progressive views about anti Asian discrimination here.
Neither consider Asians to be white, or anti Asian discrimination to be negligible, by any means. Rather, some privileged wealthy white assholes who might ostensibly present as “liberal” see a way both to benefit their own white children and avoid being called racist against black or brown people, and that’s to try and displace Asian students in prestigious schools. Some of these schools go along with it for whatever reason (donations? bigotry? Something else?) and some don’t.
That’s not CRT and that’s not the progressive movement. That’s some rich white people manipulating the system and people like you to blame someone other than those rich white assholes. They’re probably the same NIMBY assholes who refuse to allow their single family neighborhoods to be cursed with affordable multi family housing.
Critical race theory thinks anti-Asian discrimination is desirable, not negligible.
With recent Trump Administration policies like this one, I can sure see why the Asian-American vote “drifts to the right”.
Foreign students, or students who are citizens of or were born in more than a dozen Asian and Pacific Island countries will be limited to two-year initial student visas and would have to through an annual renewal process with heightened scrutiny. DHS says these restrictions are necessary because these countries are rife with visa fraud and abuse. The most notable countries, especially in regard to the US electorate, are The Philippines and Vietnam.
Cite for this nonsense.
Can you tell me what you think critical race theory means because I think you may be misunderstanding it. Your description is sufficiently vague that it could mean anything but your conflation of crit race theory with progressivism makes me wonder if you aren’t using crt as shorthand for being woke.
Critical race theory doesn’t really address model minorities very well. Critical race theory replaces logic and analysis with storytelling and model minorities make the story less believable. It would be easier to make the crt argument if model minorities didn’t exist.
For a decent summary of CRT and Asian studies, read this: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/98h4n45j
Among the most relevant tenets of critical race theory are:
*Race is the fundamental fact of reality and society. There is lip service paid to the older, liberal notion, easily supported by history, that race is socially constructed, but there’s no attempt made to resolve the contradiction between the actual meaning of this assertion and the CRT belief in race as a metaphysical fact of the universe - like most extreme ideologies, yelling at anyone who articulates the contradictions is part of the point.
*The basic theory of motivations is a funhouse mirror of the Mein Kampf way of looking at the universe, in which the Marxist oversimplification of behavior (“everything is actually about economics and every other supposed reason for any individual behavior or social structure is either a lie or a self-delusion to cover up a true economic motivation”) is just swapped out wholesale for another base factor (“everything is actually about race and every other supposed reason for any individual behavior or social structure is either a lie or a self-delusion to cover up a true racial motivation”).
*The idea that every political and social decision is a contest between races in which one race must lose for another to win is also taken in common with white supremacist ideology, just with the rooting interests reversed. This can equally be viewed as the rotation of Marxism - instead of “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles” CRT posits that “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of race struggles,” with the same unfalsifiable, circular reasoning applied to events that were not actually about race that Marxists apply to events that were not actually about class.
*There are “really” only two races, black and white, and everyone else is either basically one or basically the other in a system of hierarchy and alliance. Asians and Hispanics exist only as tools for one side of the perpetual race war to wield against the other. Jews don’t really exist, they’re just extra white white people or a religion within white people.
So under this worldview it’s easy to see how CRTers believe that the high academic performance of Asians is a problem to be solved. The belief is: To advance black interests is to harm Asian interests; everything is a race struggle and you can’t get ahead without dragging someone else down, and you can’t expect anyone to act in any way other than to the advancement of their racial group by any means necessary, because in reality that’s the only way anyone does act and to think otherwise is delusional. If this sounds exactly like how those people with the Confederate flags view the world, it should - it’s the same nonsense.