# Asiana crash at SF Airport: looks like pilot screwed the pooch, yes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 8, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900 "2013-07-08T00:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/81 "2013-07-19T20:49:59Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > In fairness to the people who did take their stuff, if I was on the plane and we sat around for a minute or so before opening the doors, I might not think there was that much of an emergency that I had to leave my stuff. Hard to say without being there. I suspect that seeing the engines come off and the big hole in back of the plane would have clued them in that there was an emergency. I heard one expert say that a fire after such a landing is a near certainty. Maybe they will play up “leave your stuff” in the next round of safety videos. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/82 "2013-07-19T21:08:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I suspect that seeing the engines come off and the big hole in back of the plane would have clued them in that there was an emergency. But I couldn’t see that through all the smoke… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/83 "2013-07-19T21:18:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I suspect that seeing the engines come off and the big hole in back of the plane would have clued them in that there was an emergency. People’s brains work funny in a crisis. Perfectly sane, logical people do inexplicable things in the immediate aftermath of crashes, fires, assaults, etc. On a survival level it’s perfectly logical for the brain to default to “gather what’s needed for survival; my bag with my medications and essential belongings, as long as I’m not currently on fire/drowning/missing a major limb”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/84 "2013-07-19T23:12:12Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > People’s brains work funny in a crisis. Perfectly sane, logical people do inexplicable things in the immediate aftermath of crashes, fires, assaults, etc. > > On a survival level it’s perfectly logical for the brain to default to “gather what’s needed for survival; my bag with my medications and essential belongings, as long as I’m not currently on fire/drowning/missing a major limb”. Oh, I bet the thought was "I can get out, and it will be really inconvenient for me not to have my laptop, purse, case of YooHoo or whatever. And if only one person did it, it would be no problem. However, I think they all got that it was an emergency. But, like I said, leaving your stuff is mentioned but not emphasized enough. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/85 "2013-07-19T23:45:05Z")
I actually did a little research on the whole “grabbing your stuff” thing because I’ve frequently heard about it after many sorts of disasters (being a bit of a disaster voyeur). It’s seems grabbing stuff is a _very common reaction_ to a life-threatening emergency. If there is _any_ time available between Bad Thing Occurring and Need to Leave Now a sizable percentage of people _will_ gather stuff. They don’t always gather useful or valuable stuff, either. Sometimes they just grab the nearest thing and flee with it. In other words, it’s not really a rational response and probably is not going to be simply reasoned away or discouraged by pre-disaster warnings. One hypothesis bandied about is simply that people are foolish and don’t follow directions. Another one is that it’s a sort of instinctive response from prehistory, where fleeing into the wild without any survival gear at all could be more risky than staying put (gotta have that spear/flint knife/means to make fire/whatever). If it’s the latter simply cautioning people “don’t do that” won’t necessarily work. It will reduce how often it happens but not eliminate it. Going forward it might be better to plan with the assumption that a certain number of people are going to do this no matter what you say. In some instance it may actually be a rational response - for someone requiring regular doses of life saving medication grabbing a _small_ bag with that could in fact improve their survival. But it’s one thing to grab a _small_ bag and another to attempt to leave with a large rolling suitcase. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/86 "2013-07-20T00:03:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s seems grabbing stuff is a _very common reaction_ to a life-threatening emergency. If there is _any_ time available between Bad Thing Occurring and Need to Leave Now a sizable percentage of people _will_ gather stuff. And since the Captain wasn’t in a hurry to evacuate, there must have been a lot of time available. I think I would have looked around to see what I could grab that might be useful. 90 seconds is a long time if you are told not to move and are trying to evaluate the situation. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/87 "2013-07-20T02:18:45Z")
about the spouse (who was on the flight) of the flight attendant who got injured and almost killed when one of the two slides inflated inside the aircraft. [http://news.yahoo.com/asiana-crash-husbands-worst-nightmare-153709705.html](http://news.yahoo.com/asiana-crash-husbands-worst-nightmare-153709705.html) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/88 "2013-07-26T06:37:16Z")
Here’s some additional animation and info about how the animation was created. > **[Pilot recreates Asiana 214 crash in stunningly realistic animation -...](https://www.electronicproducts.com/pilot-recreates-asiana-214-crash-in-stunningly-realistic-animation/)** > > Following last weekend’s Asiana Airlines Flight 214’s tragic crash at San Francisco Airport, investigators discovered that their case would be severely hampered by the fact that there was no clear video of the plane’s attempted landing. ---
**Author:** ![Bremidon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Bremidon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bremidon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/89 "2013-07-26T09:55:38Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > People’s brains work funny in a crisis. Perfectly sane, logical people do inexplicable things in the immediate aftermath of crashes, fires, assaults, etc. > > On a survival level it’s perfectly logical for the brain to default to “gather what’s needed for survival; my bag with my medications and essential belongings, as long as I’m not currently on fire/drowning/missing a major limb”. Absolutely. Quite a high percentage of people go straight into a numb “not really happening” mode. I remember a report some years after September 11 talking about how many people were casually turning off their computers, gathering stuff, and other trivialities even after the second plane had hit. You would think that most people would be in a “get the hell out of here” state of mind, but that’s not the case, especially when the source of danger is not right in your face. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/90 "2013-07-29T19:58:55Z")
didn’t read any detail anywhere yet Foreign Airlines Urged to Use GPS at San Francisco [http://screen.yahoo.com/disaster-accident-breaking-news-foreign-154119826.html](http://screen.yahoo.com/disaster-accident-breaking-news-foreign-154119826.html) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/91 "2013-07-30T16:37:40Z")
Second SFO Disaster Avoided Seconds Before Crash “On July 25th, flight EVA28, a Boeing 777 flying from Taiwan to SFO, was on the final approach for runway 28L when they were alerted by ATC that they were only at 600ft above the ground at less than 4NM from the threshold. SFO’s tower directed the flight crew to climb immediately and declare missed approach” > **[Second SFO Disaster Avoided Seconds Before Crash - Slashdot](https://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/07/30/1325222/second-sfo-disaster-avoided-seconds-before-crash)** > > sabri writes "On July 25th, flight EVA28, a Boeing 777 flying from Taiwan to SFO, was on the final approach for runway 28L when they were alerted by ATC that they were only at 600ft above the ground at less than 4NM from the threshold. SFO's tower... ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/92 "2013-07-31T00:44:07Z")
So should I be scared that I’m flying into SFO, or am I OK since I’m not using an Asian airline… ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/93 "2013-07-31T00:52:56Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Second SFO Disaster Avoided Seconds Before Crash > > “On July 25th, flight EVA28, a Boeing 777 flying from Taiwan to SFO, was on the final approach for runway 28L when they were alerted by ATC that they were only at 600ft above the ground at less than 4NM from the threshold. SFO’s tower directed the flight crew to climb immediately and declare missed approach” > [Second SFO Disaster Avoided Seconds Before Crash - Slashdot](http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/07/30/1325222/second-sfo-disaster-avoided-seconds-before-crash) I don’t know if a go-around at 600ft constitutes OMFG DISASTER AVERTED!!!11 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/94 "2013-07-31T01:22:43Z")
No, not a disaster, I’d say the system worked as intended and prevent a possible problem. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/95 "2013-07-31T01:40:10Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I don’t know if a go-around at 600ft constitutes OMFG DISASTER AVERTED!!!11 Would we even be hearing about this incident if is wasn’t for the previous crash making people more aware of these things? A colleague of mine once was in a plane that did a last-few-seconds aborted landing at ABQ because someone rolled onto the runway ahead of them when he shouldn’t have. That didn’t even make the local news. I suspect there are lots of “near misses” like that – the system just works well enough that very few of these turn into “non-misses”. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/96 "2013-07-31T01:55:40Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Would we even be hearing about this incident if is wasn’t for the previous crash making people more aware of these things? I suspect not. Go-arounds are not especially noteworthy affairs, unless it’s a two-feet-from-the-ground-holy-shit-level affair. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/97 "2013-07-31T02:10:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Maybe they will play up “leave your stuff” in the next round of safety videos. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HPLJV6YcvUE/hqdefault.jpg "Pegasus Airlines – Safety Announcement") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLJV6YcvUE) Not even their best version - saw a better one on a recent flight. Certainly gets your attention. If you don’t take your stuff the expensive pieces will become “misplaced”. > **[The Crash Landing of Southwest 345](https://nickbradbury.com/2013/07/28/the-crash-landing-of-southwest-345/)** > > Last week the plane my family and I were traveling on crash landed. I read somewhere that technically what we experienced isn’t considered a crash landing, but in my mind when a plane hits th… > [@](#): > > Last week the plane my family and I were traveling on crash landed. > \ > The next day Southwest delivered our bags to our hotel but my carry-on wasn’t among them. It arrived a day later – without my MacBook Pro. That, along with an Apple TV and a Lightning cable, had been stolen from my bag. > Southwest has agreed to reimburse me for these items once I provide proof that I purchased them (no problem, I have receipts). They claim the items weren’t stolen but were more likely “misplaced” by someone sent on board to retrieve carry-on bags. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/98 "2013-12-13T03:45:08Z")
Saw this, remembered an interesting thread about it, searched for it, and I’m the OP. Heh. Anyway, [NTSB report.](http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2013/asiana214_hearing/index.html) Plus a film of the crash on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/99 "2014-06-24T19:31:35Z")
The NTSB report is out. "Mismanagement by the pilots of Asiana Flight 214, including confusion over whether one of the airliner’s key controls was maintaining airspeed, caused the plane to crash while landing in San Francisco last year, the National Transportation Safety Board concluded Tuesday. But the board also took the unusual step of faulting the complexity of the Boeing 777’s autothrottle, as well as materials provided by the aircraft maker that fail to make clear under what conditions the automated system doesn’t automatically maintain speed, saying they contributed to the accident." [http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NTSB-faults-pilot-mismanagment-in-Asiana-flight-5576097.php](http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NTSB-faults-pilot-mismanagment-in-Asiana-flight-5576097.php) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900/100 "2014-06-24T20:32:22Z")
AFAIC they contradicted themselves with this statement: The Asiana flight crew “over-relied on automated systems that they did not fully understand,” Hart said. This isn’t a mid-production change which would confuse pilots like the foot pedal issue with the A300. This accident was 100% the fault of the crew. The plane was clearly way off the proper flight path and they watched it happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/asiana-crash-at-sf-airport-looks-like-pilot-screwed-the-pooch-yes/662900.md?page=6)