# Aside from finding evidence for exoneration, why have inmates spend 10-30 years on death row? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588 "2019-03-27T01:00:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/1 "2019-03-27T01:00:22Z")
I’m all in favor of leaving no stone unturned when it comes to finding evidence that could exonerate someone on death row - one innocent person executed is one innocent person too many. That being said, aside from exoneration possibility, is there any other valid reason, or purpose, in having someone sit on death row for 10-30 years before they get executed? Is it just waiting for a governor to show clemency? (This is not a thread about the merits or demerits of the DP itself; just asking if the long wait benefits anyone. It doesn’t benefit the victim’s family, and doesn’t necessarily benefit the convict - and also costs many thousands of dollars - indeed, the DP is costlier than life imprisonment.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/2 "2019-03-27T01:06:40Z")
Waiting out appeals. It certainly benefits the convict or they wouldn’t file the appeals. The victim’s families will differ in their opinions. If someone killed a member of my family I’d like them to be stuck in prison for the rest of their lives. The uncertainty for them that they still could be executed some day would help. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/3 "2019-03-27T02:01:10Z")
Capital crimes typically come with mandatory appeals, that are designed to be thorough and take time. There are also usually several levels of appeal in a state, and inmates may also have the option of federal appeals. None of these steps are quick. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/4 "2019-03-27T02:36:13Z")
The average is 20 years in the US and while the time is used for appeals processing I think the 20 year stay in solitary/death row is punishment itself. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/5 "2019-03-27T06:00:04Z")
[Here is the appellate docket](http://tpka-pitss.kscourts.org:8888/pls/ar/CLERKS_OFFICE.list_case_detail?i_case_number=90198&i_case_name=) for one death penalty case in Kansas. The Carr brothers were convicted and sentenced to death in 2002 for a [killing spree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_Massacre) in Wichita two years earlier, in which five people were killed. Jonathan Carr filed his first appeal in February 2003; it took six years (and twenty extensions) for his appellate attorneys to get his brief filed. The state only needed nine extensions of time and 2 1/2 years to file their reply brief, then we had a couple of years of supplemental briefings before the first appellate judgement in July 2014 overturned his sentence. The state promptly appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which in February 2016 reversed the Kansas Supreme Court, reinstated the death sentence, and remanded the case for further proceedings. In the three years since, there has been one hearing, multiple rounds of briefing, and multiple changes of attorney, but no further rulings. Nearly seventeen years after he was sentenced to die, he’s not really any closer to his date with the needle. Now remember that this is still basically his first round of appeals, mostly centered on the issues of jury instructions and whether the two brothers were entitled to separate sentencing hearings. If/when these appeals conclude, it is possible that his attorneys will find some other issues to raise and start a whole new round of appeals. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/6 "2019-03-27T06:03:39Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > [Here is the appellate docket](http://tpka-pitss.kscourts.org:8888/pls/ar/CLERKS_OFFICE.list_case_detail?i_case_number=90198&i_case_name=) for one death penalty case in Kansas. > > The Carr brothers were convicted and sentenced to death in 2002 for a [killing spree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_Massacre) in Wichita two years earlier, in which five people were killed. Jonathan Carr filed his first appeal in February 2003; it took six years (and twenty extensions) for his appellate attorneys to get his brief filed. The state only needed nine extensions of time and 2 1/2 years to file their reply brief, then we had a couple of years of supplemental briefings before the first appellate judgement in July 2014 overturned his sentence. The state promptly appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which in February 2016 reversed the Kansas Supreme Court, reinstated the death sentence, and remanded the case for further proceedings. In the three years since, there has been one hearing, multiple rounds of briefing, and multiple changes of attorney, but no further rulings. Nearly seventeen years after he was sentenced to die, he’s not really any closer to his date with the needle. > > Now remember that this is still basically his first round of appeals, mostly centered on the issues of jury instructions and whether the two brothers were entitled to separate sentencing hearings. If/when these appeals conclude, it is possible that his attorneys will find some other issues to raise and start a whole new round of appeals. Threadjack: My BFF was living in Wichita at the time, and he worked with someone whose spouse taught at the school with several of the victims. He was working at a drugstore in a low-income, mostly black neighborhood (the perps are black; the victims were white) and to a person, his customers said things like “If I could get my hands on them…” or “I never believed in the death penalty until I heard about this story.” Just Google “Wichita Massacre” and be prepared to have nightmares. This is as bad as BTK. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/7 "2019-03-27T14:58:08Z")
it was not always this long a wait, for example the Rosenbergs were executed around 2 years after they were convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/8 "2019-03-27T15:34:43Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > it took six years (and twenty extensions) for his appellate attorneys to get his brief filed. > > The state only needed nine extensions of time and 2 1/2 years to file their reply brief, There is something seriously broken when it takes 6 years to file a document called a “brief” and 2.5 years to come up with a reply. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/9 "2019-03-27T15:44:51Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > it was not always this long a wait, for example the Rosenbergs were executed around 2 years after they were convicted. It took only 4 years following conviction for that piece of shit Tim McVeigh. After a mandatory appeal he turned down all further appeals. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/10 "2019-03-27T15:48:58Z")
One hope every one on death row probably has is to draw out the appeals process long enough so the state will declare the death penalty illegal. Then your sentence becomes life without parole. And hey, if the state later reinacts the death penalty, your sentence remains life without parole. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/11 "2019-03-27T16:18:05Z")
Gary Gilmore was executed 3 months after his trial , he did not want any appeals. This was in 1977. He was the first guy executed after the death penalty was brought back after it was previously banned by the supreme court. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/12 "2019-03-27T16:27:12Z")
All states should adopt death penalty for lifers after 20 years (after all the appeals done). Cut down the prison populations. and unburden the taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/13 "2019-03-27T20:17:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > There is something seriously broken when it takes 6 years to file a document called a “brief” and 2.5 years to come up with a reply. I won’t argue with you. His brief was ~400 pages, the state’s reply was ~350 (the clerk’s record from his original trial was 225 volumes in 16 boxes). The biggest problem, of course, was that at no point was his attorney or the state’s attorney assigned just to this case; they were all juggling multiple cases, and a really big and complex and important but not particularly urgent case tends to slip to the bottom of the pile. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/14 "2019-03-27T20:21:11Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > All states should adopt death penalty for lifers after 20 years (after all the appeals done). Cut down the prison populations. > > and unburden the taxpayers. Typically, death penalty cases take significantly more tax dollars than keeping people alive for decades in prison. Also, the _average_ time from conviction to exoneration for death-row inmates exonerated by various innocence projects in the U.S. is over eleven years; some of them were exonerated only after 30+ years. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/15 "2019-03-27T21:27:32Z")
Why should it cost more to execute rather than keep em for life? A cartridge is only 50 cents. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/16 "2019-03-27T21:56:50Z")
I know this is slightly off-topic… I am against the death penalty/state killing of a person, but I support dignity-in-dying laws where someone chooses to end their life. Why can’t we afford a ‘life-without-parole’ prisoner the same right-to-die as a non-prisoner? I would reckon there are more than a few inmates facing 20, 30, 40 years before they die of natural causes, with no chance of getting out, where ingesting a drug to put them to sleep, forever, seems like a good option. Yes, I am sure an inmate can do the deed some other way if they really want to off themselves. For the OP, as stated in other posts, the automatic appeals process keeps these cases going and lawyers employed. Follow the money to see who is for and against ending the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/17 "2019-03-27T22:10:41Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > Why should it cost more to execute rather than keep em for life? > > A cartridge is only 50 cents. It’s the cost of making sure you’re executing the correct person for a crime they actually committed that drives up the bill. If you sentence them to life in prison and then figure out they really didn’t do the deed, you can open the prison gates; if you’ve executed them, raising them from the dead is just a tad more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/18 "2019-03-27T23:04:43Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > One hope every one on death row probably has is to draw out the appeals process long enough so the state will declare the death penalty illegal. Then your sentence becomes life without parole. And hey, if the state later reinacts the death penalty, your sentence remains life without parole. But is life without parole better then transition to afterlife? Is it worth it to entertain the legal and corrections system, or simply legally check out? ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/19 "2019-03-27T23:14:39Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > It’s the cost of making sure you’re executing the correct person for a crime they actually committed that drives up the bill. If you sentence them to life in prison and then figure out they really didn’t do the deed, you can open the prison gates; if you’ve executed them, raising them from the dead is just a tad more difficult. I can understand that but what about those without a reasonable doubt that they did the deed? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588/20 "2019-03-27T23:42:26Z")
> [@SigMan](#): > > I can understand that but what about those without a reasonable doubt that they did the deed? The fact that innocent people have been on death row and were exonerated shows that our criminal justice system is not good enough for meting out the death penalty. It’s a slippery slope once you start making exceptions, so it’s wiser to just not do it at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-finding-evidence-for-exoneration-why-have-inmates-spend-10-30-years-on-death-row/831588.md?page=2)