# Aside from World War II, why do many Chinese people hate Japan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888 "2016-01-22T17:33:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/21 "2016-01-23T02:20:49Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Why do there have to be other reasons? Because I get the impression that there’s more to the issue than simply WWII, although WWII is no doubt a big reason for Chinese animosity towards Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/22 "2016-01-23T02:22:38Z")
> [@tombennett91](#): > > If you consider the Second World War to have begun, like many, in 1939 then you can look to the Second Sino-Japanese War for the hatred. It would later become part of the second world war but for 2 years China were subjected to the brutality of the Japanese Empire. > > As someone has already mentioned the Rape of Nanking has had huge ramifications. 300,000 were raped and murdered with beheading competitions being common. Today there are Japanese officials that deny the event from ever happening. The lesser known but equally horrendeous crimes at Unit 731 saw the Chinese being killed by the tens of thousands through particularly disgusting methods. Again this has barely been acknowledged by the Japanese government. Yes, but this is really splitting hairs; WWII and the Second Sino-Japanese War are the same thing for all practical purposes in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/23 "2016-01-23T02:37:17Z")
Lessee, China and Japan have fought wars or had major conflicts for ages. 1865 - Japan established the Japanese Settlement in Shanghai by force, and had extra-territorialty 1895 - Japan took Taiwan by force in 1895, and while China didn’t have real strong control over Taiwan it was part of China. (Oddly enough, most of the native Taiwanese from that time actually had pretty good memories of the Japan days based on my years in Taiwan. Those folks though are at least in their 70’s.) 1918 Versailles. Following seizures of German territories in 1914, the League of Nations granted Japan mandates over some former German possessions in the Western Pacific after World War I including in China. 1931 is when WW2 started for China and Japan. It wasn’t 1939 or 1941 - 1945. [Japan's Military Aggression in East Asia 1931 -1937](http://www.pacificwar.org.au/historicalbackground/JapMilaggro.html) Tens of millions of Chinese died directly or indirectly. For example, to slow the Japanese invasion the KMT blew up dikes, flooded vast reaches of China causing displacement, starvation and sickness. Whilst not directly attributable to the Japanese, without the invasion it would not have happened. There was a year in the 1930’s when the silkworm centers of China made huge investments to meet the Japanese demand, that then was deliberately pulled causing mass bankruptcies and a huge body blow to the economies in those areas. Millions and millions of Chinese are still alive that lived through the experience. Maybe the OP doesn’t really understand just how long the war was and the amount of suffering, atrocities and death that took place. [And let’s be fair, there was also a simmering or outright civil war at the same time, with the majority of China was controlled by warlords between the Last Emperor (1911) and the founding of the PRC (1949), that didn’t help the overall situation.] ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/24 "2016-01-23T04:02:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And I seriously doubt that your average American in Kansas even knew what ‘American hegemony’ meant or whether we had it or not, and cared less. I’d say that it was mostly based on fear that the Soviets could attack and kill us, and they were obviously aggressive. > > That said, I never got a large hatred vibe about the Russians during the Cold War…not on par with what the Chinese and others feel toward Japan. There was a lot of fear, and certainly some hatred, but nothing in the same league. > [@tombennett91](#): > > As someone has already mentioned the Rape of Nanking has had huge ramifications. 300,000 were raped and murdered with beheading competitions being common. Today there are Japanese officials that deny the event from ever happening. The lesser known but equally horrendeous crimes at Unit 731 saw the Chinese being killed by the tens of thousands through particularly disgusting methods. Again this has barely been acknowledged by the Japanese government. Yes, even at the height of the cold war, neither country invaded the other and murdered or did hideous medical experimentation on hundreds of thousands of people. There’s a lot more to be upset about in China. The thing that amazes me is that Unit 731 was as heinous as the Nazi doctors, but you hardly hear anything about it. It doesn’t get taught in school. ---
**Author:** ![tombennett91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@tombennett91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tombennett91)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/25 "2016-01-23T11:39:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, but this is really splitting hairs; WWII and the Second Sino-Japanese War are the same thing for all practical purposes in this thread. Of course hence my first sentence. But I’m not sure why you would think there’s a more substantial reason besides World War 2 that has had an impact on their relations. the Japanese treated China brutally for 8 years. It’s estimated that 22 million citizens were killed, 1 million POW’s dead and 10 million military causalities.The Japanese government has barely acknowledge the atrocities they committed. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/26 "2016-01-23T12:04:44Z")
Don’t forget [that incident in 1281](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze#Definition_and_etymology) in which the invading Mongolian fleet was dispersed by the kamikaze winds. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/27 "2016-01-23T14:50:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Virtually every discussion about “Why many Chinese people hate Japan” comes to the topic of World War II and stays there, so I wanted to leave that issue out of the discussion and ask: \*Aside \*from Japan’s aggression against China in WWII, what other reasons are there that many Chinese people today still hate Japan? You can’t leave WW2, or the Sino-Japanese War, or Japanese aggression towards China from 1931 on out of the discussion and have any kind of reasonable discussion about the issue. It’s rather like asking _aside_ from the Holocaust, why do so many Jews still hate Germany today? ---
**Author:** ![tombennett91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@tombennett91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tombennett91)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/28 "2016-01-23T15:13:41Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You can’t leave WW2, or the Sino-Japanese War, or Japanese aggression towards China from 1931 on out of the discussion and have any kind of reasonable discussion about the issue. It’s rather like asking _aside_ from the Holocaust, why do so many Jews still hate Germany today? Aside from 9/11 why do Americans hate Bin Laden? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/29 "2016-01-23T15:18:11Z")
> [@tombennett91](#): > > Aside from 9/11 why do Americans hate Bin Laden? Well, in this instance, bin Laden actually was responsible for attacks against Americans before 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/30 "2016-01-23T15:19:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Well, in this instance, bin Laden actually was responsible for attacks against Americans before 9/11. Ok, aside from all that then. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/31 "2016-01-23T15:19:39Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You can’t leave WW2, or the Sino-Japanese War, or Japanese aggression towards China from 1931 on out of the discussion and have any kind of reasonable discussion about the issue. It’s rather like asking _aside_ from the Holocaust, why do so many Jews still hate Germany today? But Chinese dislike of Japan existed before WWII, and/or probably would have existed even without WWII. WWII simply poured fuel on an already-glowing fire. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/32 "2016-01-23T15:29:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But Chinese dislike of Japan existed before WWII, and/or probably would have existed even without WWII. WWII simply poured fuel on an already-glowing fire. [Part of that glowing fire](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sino-Japanese_War). Seriously, why are you resisting the fact that they went to war as a reason for the animosity? ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/33 "2016-01-23T16:06:30Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Lessee, China and Japan have fought wars or had major conflicts for ages. > > 1865 - Japan established the Japanese Settlement in Shanghai by force, and had extra-territorialty This sounded early to me, since Japan was only opened in 1854, and had not yet had a chance to fully modernize. The following link has a table on p148 citing only three Japanese living in Shanghai in 1870, not a credible number to leave behind to control and administer of conquered territory. Also, I am unable to locate any reference to Japanese military action in the Shanghai area before the 20th century. [‘Little Japan’ in Shanghai](http://iao.cnrs.fr/documents/Pub_enligne/Henriot/LittleJapan.pdf) Japan did obtain an extraterritorial concession in Shanghai, whose foundation I have been unable to pinpoint (honest I did a reasonable amount of Googling), but they would not necessarily have had to fight for it, since the UK and France were really in control of the area, and were enabling peaceful concessions to other advanced coiuntries. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/34 "2016-01-23T16:46:51Z")
Chinese animosity toward Japan may be largely due to Japanese pirates who could have afflicted China in considerable numbers for over 1000 years- they were making a big impression in Korea as early as the 5th century. Here are two links on the subject: [Japanese History Site #1](http://japanesehistory.info/pirates.htm) From Link: > [@](#): > > One of the first accounts of Japanese pirates came from the Japanese poet Ki no Tsurayuki in 934 and describes precautions taken by the captain of his ship as he traveled in the Inland Sea. **In the capital of Koguryo** \ **there is monument from celebrating the defeated of a Japanese piratical force in 404 A.D…** Japanese pirates mainly were freebooters who lived on land bordering the Inland Sea and the coast of Kyushu. Piracy grew during periods when China and Korea closed their ports to foreign trade . The Kotsuna clan who controlled traffic in the Inland Sea and were involved in maritime trade and made no distinction between piracy and legitimate trade. Generations of Japanese families supporting themselves through the lucrative practice of piracy. [Japanese History Site #2](https://books.google.com/books?id=NnsEAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA765&lpg=PA765&dq=Murakami+Yoshihiro+pirate&source=bl&ots=DE_MWDcT3g&sig=Qjd-HKmLPEhVESzpnwVEDhzvAXs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk_uK6rMDKAhUIeD4KHQYHBz8Q6AEIOjAE#v=onepage&q=Murakami%20Yoshihiro%20pirate&f=false) This link indicates that by the time of the Ming dynasty Japanese pirates were ravaging the China coast as far south as Amoy, necessiting considerable defensive military efforts. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/35 "2016-01-23T17:11:57Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > This sounded early to me, since Japan was only opened in 1854, and had not yet had a chance to fully modernize. > > The following link has a table on p148 citing only three Japanese living in Shanghai in 1870, not a credible number to leave behind to control and administer of conquered territory. Also, I am unable to locate any reference to Japanese military action in the Shanghai area before the 20th century. > > [‘Little Japan’ in Shanghai](http://iao.cnrs.fr/documents/Pub_enligne/Henriot/LittleJapan.pdf) > > Japan did obtain an extraterritorial concession in Shanghai, whose foundation I have been unable to pinpoint (honest I did a reasonable amount of Googling), but they would not necessarily have had to fight for it, since the UK and France were really in control of the area, and were enabling peaceful concessions to other advanced countries. You’re right. I did a quick search and picked the first link that said 1854. Your link says that by 1915, Japanese in Shanghai outnumbered the British 1.5 to 1, so it was a pre-WW2 thing. A couple of snippets from Wiki’s [history of shanghai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Shanghai). In 1553, a city wall was built around the Old Town (Nanshi) as a defense against the depredations of the Wokou (Japanese pirates)…The Treaty of Shimonoseki which ended the First Sino-Japanese War saw Japan emerge as an additional foreign power in Shanghai. Japan built the first factories in Shanghai,[citation needed] which were soon followed by other foreign powers…The Japanese Navy bombed Shanghai on January 28, 1932, nominally to crush Chinese student protests against the Japanese occupation of Manchuria…During the Second Sino-Japanese War, the Chinese-controlled parts of the city fell after the 1937 Battle of Shanghai (known in China as the Battle of Songhu). The foreign concessions, which remained largely intact. Nelson already highlighted the pirates, and the above wiki claims that as the main reason for the Shanghai city wall (although almost all cities in China had some kind of city wall). During the 12 years I lived in Shanghai, there was virtually zero evidence of when the Japanese were there during the “Settlements” period. The Japanese settlement area had some old factory/warehouse brink buildings on the river. No memorial that I ever found of the Lunghua Civilian Assembly Center, which is where the British and Americans were interned during WW2, and where Empire of the Sun was set. It’s now part of the botanical gardens. I wandered around big parts of the botanical gardens with my kids in strollers and never found a memorial. I did find what I believe were some of the buildings but they were old, decrepit and looked like they were used as storage sheds. The Lunghua airfield is still there and used. My twins went to a pre-school bordering the grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/36 "2016-01-23T22:10:45Z")
World War II excluded? “Aside from them raping your grandmother, what could you possibly have against the Japanese?” I’ve asked my students about their hostility to Japan and WWII is what they pretty much always fall back on. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/37 "2016-01-23T22:12:24Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Yep… That vast and powerful “American hegemony” that we had in 1946… :rolleyes: You might want to read up on the roots of the Korean War. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/38 "2016-01-23T22:49:04Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > You might want to read up on the roots of the Korean War. The roots of the Korean War were an example of American hegemony, or something, that I need to know more about? I thought I already knew enough, but since you apparently don’t think I do, how about telling me what I have missed, wise guy. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/39 "2016-01-23T22:56:01Z")
Well, its definitely WW2 stuff, but it is just something that HAS to be related. Take this fact with a grain of salt because I am just recalling what another poster here posted in a another thread here recently. When WW2 ended, Japan had to return all their Chinese prisoners of war. Which they did. All 56 of them. Thinking about that fact, perhaps the question should be why do the Japanese hate the Chinese so darn much? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888/40 "2016-01-23T23:52:07Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > You might want to read up on the roots of the Korean War. The exact cause of the Korean War was a misstatement from Dean Atcheson not including Korea in our defensive perimeter. Also, obviously drunk in its hegemonic powers, the US allowed Korea to be partitioned. A large mistake. Then, in 1949, the USA pulled out all of its troops from Korea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aside-from-world-war-ii-why-do-many-chinese-people-hate-japan/743888.md?page=3)