# Ask a 23 year old virgin anything **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 28, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707 "2015-06-28T16:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/63 "2015-06-29T11:02:12Z")
> [@sesilia](#): > > I’m a 22yo woman and bad looks - not social skills - are the most common thing among single men in my college campus. Also, some men get sexier as they age. Maybe that’s true for you. At that age to me any attractive guy had to have either long hair or dreads or play an instrument - preferably all of those at once. I was dating a fiddler player 18 years older than me when I was 21. In other words, different people like different things - at any age. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/64 "2015-06-29T12:38:28Z")
> [@HandsomeGorilla](#): > > I dont feel motivated to do anything to fix this situation because whenever I start, the pain of loneliness is too hard to bear so I just give up. Sometimes in life, if we want our situations to improve, we have to do things that are hard. Sometimes, it even feels like the exact things we need most to do are actually the absolute hardest things possible for us. When you take this opportunity and do the hard things instead of giving up, you can develop the confidence in yourself you lack. Start small, but take a step forward. Step out into the world and interact with people. Have you thought about getting a dog? Not only are they great companions, but if your dog is cute enough, people will flock to you to pet it and ask you questions about it when you are walking it, plus you will get exercise and get out of the house. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/65 "2015-06-29T13:19:36Z")
> [@HandsomeGorilla](#): > > Nothing I haven’t read before, this is still basic. I dont think it’s possible to fake confidence because people will see right through your act. Real confidence comes from external positive validation while growing up, something which I never received. I am just going to address this post: Yes, you can. I got lots of negative criticism when I was growing up, especially from my mom, who told me to my face I was unattractive and my dad, who used to call me his “dumb doll”. It still stings a little to remember those criticisms, but I faked it and then I made it. It helps that when you fake it, and you do something successfully, you are then rewarded with validation, which builds up your esteem, until you have enough esteem to get through life. It just takes us longer, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/66 "2015-06-29T14:18:26Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > No, ask rather **What _is_ it with all these posters on this supposedly liberal, enlightened message board who treat posters like this OP and others similar, with such hatred, contempt, and insults that no leper in Jesus’s day ever had to endure?** > > And why do the mods so quietly tolerate and enable the level of jerkish animosity that we see every time a thread like this happens? (No, I’m not calling the above-quoted poster a jerk in particular. I’m calling practically everyone (well, a whole lot of them anyway) who posts in these sorts of threads jerks, especially in that thread yesterday.) > > MODS: WHY do you let this go on like this? (Please don’t ask me to take it up in ATMB. This post is part of THIS conversation.) > > ETA: Okay, just skimmed this thread. Not as bad as what we usually see here. What are we supposed to ask? We’ve all been virgins when we were young. What blinding insight can the op offer? Also despite being a brand spanking new poster he starts a “Ask The …” thread. If the op had instead started a “help me get over my shyness with girls thread”'I’m sure the replies would be quite different. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/67 "2015-06-29T14:22:03Z")
I suggest finding niches where the female-to-male ratio is high. For example, working at a place with mostly females could provide opportunities for you. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/68 "2015-06-29T15:02:24Z")
You are committed to lifelong teetotalism and no premarital sex due to your religion. These are somewhat severe social restrictions, so that suggests to me your religion is central to your life. If that’s the case, why not throw yourself into it? Become the most devout practitioner of your faith you can be. Attend services at every opportunity. Pray. Volunteer for everything. Visit other congregations. Go on a mission, go preach to the unsaved. Feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Immerse yourself in the social life of your co-religionists. You will meet a lot of people, perhaps of both sexes, and eventually become more socially comfortable through repeated effort. Even if your religion prescribes that you only socialize with men, these men should be invested in helping you get married one day and fully join your religious community as a new family. If all this sounds horrifying to you, you might turn it on its head and question whether your religion is a good for you at all. ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/69 "2015-06-29T15:09:42Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > I suggest finding niches where the female-to-male ratio is high. For example, working at a place with mostly females could provide opportunities for you. If you’re in an area that offers it, see if you can take ballroom/swing/other partner dancing as a single male. You’re probably cringing, but as a sometime dance instructor and person with off-and-on social anxiety, dance is an amazing thing. Here are just a few reasons. –Almost EVERYBODY is awkward at first there. If you have any enthusiasm and can follow simple directions, you’ll be a hit. If you can walk without falling (most of the time), you can dance. –This is a scenario where being a single male is a blessing. Women often want to take dance lessons but have no (interested) partner, OR they start lessons with their SO and the the guy drops out after a few sessions. I would have killed for a few extra men in each group. –You could also take a few private lessons before taking group lessons, and have a leg up and look really smooth. 😉 –Even if you never go dancing at a club or fraternal lodge (a common place to do old school dancing in smaller towns), the lessons themselves are a great excuse to practice dressing up, nice grooming, basic social niceties and graces. It’s also a low-pressure, non-sexually charged environment to have contact with other people. Also, the dance schools/instructors often throw parties themselves for their students and friends. –Partner dancing teaches you so much about communication on a subtle level. It’s hard to describe succinctly, but as a man leading a woman, you get to learn all sorts of techniques to subtly guide your partner via touch, body weight and eye contact, and you learn quickly from the feedback of your partner. My absolute favorite students, when I was teaching, were guys like you of all ages. It was an amazing thing to see someone grow in confidence week after week, not just physically, but emotionally. (I did endeavor to learn and use some light therapeutic techniques.) There’s lots of other great advice here, but I wanted to throw in my two cents. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/70 "2015-06-29T15:29:27Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I recommend an acting class, it may help you become more comfortable with people. Try a community college. Excellent suggestion! Note that this will involve stuff that will be a real challenge, but wow. Really. Or get involved in any kind of community theater. You can just go and say you don’t have any particular skills or abilities but would like to help out, what do they need? There’s almost always a need for stage hands, or someone to operate the lights, etc. > [@HandsomeGorilla](#): > > Fair enough. I’ve already got walking upright cowered. I’m currently working on natural non-forced eye contact. Interesting typo. 😉 The non-forced eye contact thing is tricky. At 57, I’m still not good at it, in certain situations. (I’m fine when we’re just talking about something, not at a pick-up bar thing, but 28 years married I have no need to develop the skill anyway!) > [@HandsomeGorilla](#): > > I was in therapy 2 years ago for an extended amount of time but it didn’t help. Medication hasn’t helped either. Try a different therapist. At least three. Change therapist if you don’t feel like you’re making progress after a year. (Someone may offer a better timeline and I’ll take their word for it.) > [@Mijin](#): > > [ol] > [li]Build social skills by going to social events (note: nightclubs are amongst the worst choices for this) and engaging strangers in conversation; lots of people, not just hawt girls[/li][li]Take an interest in people. That doesn’t mean pretending to be interested in everything they say, or asking them millions of questions. It means paying enough attention to what someone is saying that you could feedback something they said 5 minutes ago.[/li][li]Don’t try to show off / brag, but conversely don’t lead with something negative – no-one will date you out of pity.[/li][li]If you do find yourself talking to a hot girl, don’t “latch on” to her. Let other people into your conversation, or go talk to someone else for a bit. [/li][/ol] Bingo. Most importantly, don’t go looking to meet women. Go looking to meet people. One step at a time. Find SOME excuse, some hobby, some activity, ANYTHING, that gets you into regular contact with people and gives you a chance to develop your ability to interact, where the focus is on something rather than yourselves. For example, I highly recommend volunteering at Habitat for Humanity. You don’t need any special skills and they’ll provide you with the tools. The people there are there to contribute, tend not to be judgmental, and are usually more than happy to show you how to get stuff done. A lot of work takes two people but one just has to hold something, or measure, or go fetch. It’s a perfect environment to build people skills, since you’re focusing on something else: the work at hand. Church activities are great, too. ---
**Author:** ![dada2fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@dada2fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dada2fish)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/71 "2015-06-29T19:27:12Z")
Your thoughts are constantly self defeating. You’re giving up before you even try. You’re in a crippling state. I would try therapy with someone who specializes in social anxiety and possibly depression. You have to take baby steps. You say you are isolated and only family and co-workers are around. Is there a park nearby? some kind of public area? Get out around other people and start small bylining at someone for 2 seconds and nod a polite hello. Next time, muster a small smile and actually say the word hello. Go from there. Do you ever practice talking to people in the mirror or perfecting a nice easy smile? Is there anyone in your family you can confide in who might assist you and give you tips or take you out to a restaurant and try some small talk with your server, for example? Fine, you say you have no skills, but is there anything you are interested in? Hobbies? Music? Books? are there any specialized clubs to join? Do they have any regular activities at your library? I remember when I was younger, my friend and I used to make ourselves talk to a certain number of people whenever we went out, just to hone our social skills and build confidence. It’s scary at first, but it does help. Is much easier to talk to someone while your doing a shared activity. I think initially a good therapist might help you with these self loathing thoughts. 75% of the things that you are insecure about, people don’t even notice, because they are worried about people noticing their own insecurities. EVERY is insecure about something deep down, some of us can fake it better because we’ve had more practice. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/72 "2015-06-29T20:34:37Z")
You do sound self defeating. Social skills are not learned in a vacuum. They are not learned on a message board or by reading books. You really do need to get out and mingle. If girls bother you get out and mingle with other guys, work up to the big deal of talking to women. If you can’t take a single step to help yourself, I think you might need further counseling. Make a friend. Build on that. You can’t drink due to your beliefs? Do you go to church? Can you join a prayer group or something? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/73 "2015-06-29T21:21:06Z")
I don’t consider a 23 year old virgin to be extremely odd. Your not a ladies man I would guess but you have plenty of time to find a suitable mate. Looking back I would have spent a lot more time preparing myself for the right mate instead of looking to get laid. If the woman you marry turns out to be your only lover I would consider that admirable. ``` As far as getting your confidence up goes, I like to think we establish our alpha maleness while interacting with other males. We don't have to be the top male to accomplish this. As long as we are able to command a position respect amoung our peers in whatever social venue we care to hang out in then you will have accomplished this. It will add to your confidence. Learn to recognise your strong points and areas you are more confident in and look for social venues where these will best be put to good use. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/74 "2015-06-29T21:29:59Z")
> [@sesilia](#): > > IMHO, many twentysomething men are single because their sexual market value is low. At that age girls are attracted to good looking jocks. You could visit Asia where your value is higher. Many older men even get foreign brides when they have realized that they don’t have nothing what women want in their own countries. Good luck! 🙂 Why travel to another part of the world just to get a girlfriend? Seems very pathetic, so many available women in their twenties. I’m still in that age group(28) and I see even hot women with average looking men in social situations all the time. It is quite startling and blows away the thought that all women, even hotties, are hooked up with hunky guys. I see this bars and what not all the time, so not true. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/75 "2015-06-29T21:33:49Z")
> [@HandsomeGorilla](#): > > My main issue is that I don’t believe any form of self improvement will work to attract a woman, so I don’t bother attempting anything. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy. I need to somehow get away from this line of thinking but I cant force my brain to break free from it. It’s hard but not impossible at all. Like everything it entails stepping outside the comfort zone and taking risks, and you have already taken the first step. And that is recognizing you have a problem and knowing you need to change. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/76 "2015-06-29T21:40:14Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I am just going to address this post: Yes, you can. I got lots of negative criticism when I was growing up, especially from my mom, who told me to my face I was unattractive and my dad, who used to call me his “dumb doll”. It still stings a little to remember those criticisms, but I faked it and then I made it. It helps that when you fake it, and you do something successfully, you are then rewarded with validation, which builds up your esteem, until you have enough esteem to get through life. It just takes us longer, is all. Sorry to hear that, I’ve had negative things said to me, though not severe. But I agree with your advice, and many others have given good advice and I won’t repeat them and I don’t want to clog a thread so much. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/77 "2015-06-29T22:37:51Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > It’s just not the big deal the OP is making it out to be. There are plenty of 23 year old virgins. I myself was a virgin for considerably longer than that. I’m not sure when I finally lost my virginity – I might have been 30 or 31. Now, at the age of 53, it seems remarkably insignificant. This, same with me pretty much. @OP to use an old line, it gets better. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/78 "2015-06-29T23:20:06Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Why travel to another part of the world just to get a girlfriend? Seems very pathetic, so many available women in their twenties. I’m still in that age group(28) and I see even hot women with average looking men in social situations all the time. It is quite startling and blows away the thought that all women, even hotties, are hooked up with hunky guys. I see this bars and what not all the time, so not true. I moved from a small town in Tennessee to New York City. It worked. ---
**Author:** ![HandsomeGorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@HandsomeGorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HandsomeGorilla)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/79 "2015-06-30T02:09:40Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > You can’t drink due to your beliefs? Do you go to church? Can you join a prayer group or something? No. I’m a muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/80 "2015-06-30T05:19:06Z")
My advice: Ask yourself, “When I am 28 years old, what will I wish I had changed or done in my life when I was 23?” ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/81 "2015-06-30T06:35:00Z")
Things that, in retrospect, I could have done as a 23 yr old virgin. 1. Ballet Lessons 2. Community Choir 3. French classes None of which would have “cured virginity”, all of which would have enriched my life, improved my knowledge of social relationships, and introduced me to women. Things that, in retrospect, I should have done, that I didn’t know how to do: 1. Get a job 2. Move out of home 3. Changed majors Things that did make a difference, eventually 1. Moved out of home 2. Conversational Skills training I haven’t got a book to recommend, but that was pre-www. I google “conversational skills” now, and I get a lot of hits. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707/82 "2015-06-30T10:15:44Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > **What _is_ it with these threads?** Rejects from Reddit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-23-year-old-virgin-anything/723707.md?page=5)