# Ask A Catholic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897 "2011-02-10T15:12:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/141 "2011-02-10T20:46:11Z")
Hey. I just noticed I am under “Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share (MPSIMS)” \*\*That’s \*\*not very nice. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/142 "2011-02-10T20:47:35Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > Hey. I just noticed I am under “Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share (MPSIMS)” > \*\*That’s \*\*not very nice. Don’t take offense, there’s a tradition of “ask the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_” at this location. ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/143 "2011-02-10T20:47:37Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **terryobrien80** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13452875#post13452875) > > > > One should note the warm relationship displayed between George W. Bush & Pope Benedict, and the rather less warm relations between Pope Benedict and Obama. The smallest of actions on the part of a Pope speak volumes. > > So true. It tells us quite a bit about this Pope. Yes, it tells us that he like pro-life, pro-traditional-family politicians. So do I. ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/144 "2011-02-10T20:48:48Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > Hey. I just noticed I am under “Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share (MPSIMS)” > \*\*That’s \*\*not very nice. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Don’t take offense, there’s a tradition of “ask the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_” at this location. I know. I was just goofing around a little. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Beniamino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Beniamino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beniamino)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/145 "2011-02-10T20:48:58Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Yinz? Are you from Pittsburgh? Yessir. Swisshelm Park. > [@](#): > > Here is one: [http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/st-joseph’s-hospital-phoenix-desert](http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/st-joseph%E2%80%99s-hospital-phoenix-desert) From this article, it looks as though the Bishop made a mistake, but that’s a left-wing Catholic periodical. I wonder if a right-wing Catholic periodical might have a different story. I dunno, but there’s always two sides to every story, and I wonder what the Bishop’s stated justification was. The theology is clear: if both are dying, you have to step in and save the mother. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/146 "2011-02-10T20:51:32Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > That may be so, but other Christian sects do not necessarily believe in the literal transubstantiation into the actual blood and body. (Do any others? The various Orthodox churches do, I guess, but I don’t think Lutherans do, maybe Anglicans?) Anglicans enjoy enormous breadth of doctrine - it’s the Anglicans’ unique gift and its Achilles’ heel. There is hardly any church teaching outside the historic creeds that Anglicans do not disagree about among themselves. However, generally speaking, Anglicans believe that the elements of the Eucharist - the bread and wine - contain the True Presence of Christ. There are Anglo-Catholics who believe in transubstantiation (but not that many); there are Anglo-Protestants who believe that Christ is present in the sense that he is present everwhere and that the sacrament of Eucharist is a memorial meal, not a sacrificial feast. And a whole range of opinions in between. And of course 90% of Anglican laity probably give it very little thought one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/147 "2011-02-10T20:51:50Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > I have not read the encyclical so I can’t really say. > > But regarding encyclicals in general, let me say this: They are given their due reverence because of their source. One must keep in mind two things though: The different “levels” of Catholic teaching, and the Church’s prime mission to spread the Gospel & the fact that politics is not its prime mission. > > Catholics can come down on either side of the Iraq war and still be faithfull Catholics. It has to do with the _Just War_ doctrine, and whether the Iraq war was justifiable. The argument can be made either way. So that’s pretty much that in a nutshell. > > As for the different “levels” of Catholic teaching: Not all teachings are Dogmatic, or even doctrinal. “Dogma” MUST be believed by all Catholics: Failure to do so invokes in the “H=Word” (Heresy). Encylicals are not Dogmatic. That is not to say they should not be given due deference, but they are what they are. > > One should note the warm relationship that was displayed between George W. Bush & Pope Benedict, and the rather less warm relations between Pope Benedict and Obama. The smallest of actions on the part of a Pope speak volumes. So when the Pope writes a lengthy encyclical in which he sets out the case for nations to take care of their poor, it’s not an endorsement of a political policy position, but when the Pope acts slightly more cordially to one President than another, it is? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/148 "2011-02-10T20:54:13Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > I have not read the encyclical so I can’t really say. > > But regarding encyclicals in general, let me say this: They are given their due reverence because of their source. One must keep in mind two things though: The different “levels” of Catholic teaching, and the Church’s prime mission to spread the Gospel & the fact that politics is not its prime mission. > > Catholics can come down on either side of the Iraq war and still be faithfull Catholics. It has to do with the _Just War_ doctrine, and whether the Iraq war was justifiable. The argument can be made either way. So that’s pretty much that in a nutshell. > > As for the different “levels” of Catholic teaching: Not all teachings are Dogmatic, or even doctrinal. “Dogma” MUST be believed by all Catholics: Failure to do so invokes in the “H=Word” (Heresy). Encylicals are not Dogmatic. That is not to say they should not be given due deference, but they are what they are. > > One should note the warm relationship that was displayed between George W. Bush & Pope Benedict, and the rather less warm relations between Pope Benedict and Obama. The smallest of actions on the part of a Pope speak volumes. > > . Thank you for the response. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/149 "2011-02-10T20:54:41Z")
I’m not necessarily doubting this, because I have no idea one way or the other. Can someone provide a cite for this allegedly “cozy” relationship between the Pope and GWB, and for the allegedly “cold” relationship between the Pontiff and BHO? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/150 "2011-02-10T20:59:26Z")
Do you believe that President Obama is a Christian? ---
**Author:** ![Beniamino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Beniamino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beniamino)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/151 "2011-02-10T21:01:52Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So when the Pope writes a lengthy encyclical in which he sets out the case for nations to take care of their poor, it’s not an endorsement of a political policy position, but when the Pope acts slightly more cordially to one President than another, it is? To be fair, [_ **Caritas in Veritate** _](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html) is 100 pages long, with 160 footnotes. Let him read the thing first! Here’s one bit I particularly like: > [@](#): > > 1. No consideration of the problems associated with development could fail to highlight the direct link between poverty and unemployment. In many cases, poverty results from a violation of the dignity of human work, either because work opportunities are limited (through unemployment or underemployment), or “because a low value is put on work and the rights that flow from it, especially the right to a just wage and to the personal security of the worker and his or her family”[143]. For this reason, on 1 May 2000 on the occasion of the Jubilee of Workers, my venerable predecessor Pope John Paul II issued an appeal for “a global coalition in favour of ‘decent work”'[144], supporting the strategy of the International Labour Organization. In this way, he gave a strong moral impetus to this objective, seeing it as an aspiration of families in every country of the world. What is meant by the word “decent” in regard to work? It means work that expresses the essential dignity of every man and woman in the context of their particular society: work that is freely chosen, effectively associating workers, both men and women, with the development of their community; work that enables the worker to be respected and free from any form of discrimination; work that makes it possible for families to meet their needs and provide schooling for their children, without the children themselves being forced into labour; work that permits the workers to organize themselves freely, and to make their voices heard; work that leaves enough room for rediscovering one’s roots at a personal, familial and spiritual level; work that guarantees those who have retired a decent standard of living. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/152 "2011-02-10T21:02:24Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > One should note the warm relationship that was displayed between George W. Bush & Pope Benedict, and the rather less warm relations between Pope Benedict and Obama. The smallest of actions on the part of a Pope speak volumes. I don’t agree with this. The Pope, more so than perhaps any world leader other than the American President, has a pulpit. We need not guess, or infer from his “smallest of actions” any great truths when he is perfectly capable of voluminous and exacting detail to explain his positions. As a side note, I also don’t particularly agree with the assessment that one’s relationship ran all that colder than the other’s did. ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/153 "2011-02-10T21:08:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So when the Pope writes a lengthy encyclical in which he sets out the case for nations to take care of their poor, it’s not an endorsement of a political policy position, but when the Pope acts slightly more cordially to one President than another, it is? I did not say that. I said I had not read that specific encyclical so I cannot comment on it. I was making a comment on encyclicals in general. And yes very small moves by a pope - or even a president or king or whatever - speak volumes. After all, even though spiritually we believe the Pope is the shepherd of Christ’s Church, he is also a sovereign head of state. Therefore small gestures mean a lot in diplo-speak. . ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/154 "2011-02-10T21:16:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **terryobrien80** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13452875#post13452875) > > One should note the warm relationship that was displayed between George W. Bush & Pope Benedict, and the rather less warm relations between Pope Benedict and Obama. The smallest of actions on the part of a Pope speak volumes. > > I don’t agree with this. > > The Pope, more so than perhaps any world leader other than the American President, has a pulpit. We need not guess, or infer from his “smallest of actions” any great truths when he is perfectly capable of voluminous and exacting detail to explain his positions. > > As a side note, I also don’t particularly agree with the assessment that one’s relationship ran all that colder than the other’s did. **Article:** **President Bush addresses relationship with Pope Benedict, U.S. Catholics** > **[President Bush addresses relationship with Pope Benedict, U.S. Catholics](https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/12332/president-bush-addresses-relationship-with-pope-benedict-us-catholics)** > > On Friday, President George W. Bush publicly addressed Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to the United States in an interview with EWTN. In addition, Bush also addressed concerns of interest to Catholics such as the position of Christians in Iraq, relations... _"…Raymond Arroyo closed the interview by referring to President Bush’s words about looking into the eyes of Russian President Vladimir Putin and “seeing his soul.”_ \*Arroyo asked President Bush what he saw when he looked into the eyes of Pope Benedict XVI. \* _“God,” the president answered"_ > **[President Bush addresses relationship with Pope Benedict, U.S. Catholics](https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/12332/president-bush-addresses-relationship-with-pope-benedict-us-catholics)** > > On Friday, President George W. Bush publicly addressed Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to the United States in an interview with EWTN. In addition, Bush also addressed concerns of interest to Catholics such as the position of Christians in Iraq, relations... Somehow, I can’t see Obama saying the same thing. . ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/155 "2011-02-10T21:18:51Z")
That only speaks towards Bush’s thoughts on Ratzinger, not on Ratzinger’s thoughts on Bush (or Obama). ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/156 "2011-02-10T21:36:12Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Do you believe that President Obama is a Christian? Who, me? I honestly don’t know. I do know this: His dad was a Muslim, no child ever sheds things that intilled upon them by their father. He may not be a Muslim, but he must have some sympathies for the religion of his father. I do know this: The Liberation Theology spewed out at the church Obama attended is not authentic Christianity. Even protestants would agree with that. It has all to do with politics and racial power (the race depending on which race is preaching it) and very little to do with the Gospel. One time when John Paul II visted Nicaragua he publically chastised a priest that was espousing their Nicaraguan form of Liberation Theology. ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/157 "2011-02-10T21:38:12Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > That only speaks towards Bush’s thoughts on Ratzinger, not on Ratzinger’s thoughts on Bush (or Obama). Fair point. But the pope very much dislikes the positions of pro-abortion, pro-same-sex marriage politicians. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/158 "2011-02-10T21:38:31Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > I do know this: His dad was a Muslim, no child ever sheds things that intilled upon them by their father. He may not be a Muslim, but he must have some sympathies for the religion of his father. Oh, dear. Oh dear, oh dear. That’s… that’s precious. And really not accurate at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/159 "2011-02-10T21:45:47Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > Who, me? I honestly don’t know. > > I do know this: His dad was a Muslim, no child ever sheds things that intilled upon them by their father. He may not be a Muslim, but he must have some sympathies for the religion of his father. This seems like a very definitive statement. Can a person born to Buddhist parents genuinely convert to Christianity, or must they always “…have some sympathies for the religion of [their parents?]” > [@](#): > > I do know this: The Liberation Theology spewed out at the church Obama attended is not authentic Christianity. Even protestants would agree with that. It has all to do with politics and racial power (the race depending on which race is preaching it) and very little to do with the Gospel. > > One time when John Paul II visted Nicaragua he publically chastised a priest that was espousing their Nicaraguan form of Liberation Theology. Yes, but let’s observe the log in our own eye before we comment upon the motes found elsewhere. Like it or not, liberation theology arose from our Church. Gustavo Gutierrez was a Catholic priest, as was Juan Luis Segundo and Jon Sobrino. And the Vatican didn’t come out against it until the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![terryobrien80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@terryobrien80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terryobrien80)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897/160 "2011-02-10T21:45:54Z")
> [@terryobrien80](#): > > Who, me? I honestly don’t know. > > I do know this: His dad was a Muslim, no child ever sheds things that intilled upon them by their father. He may not be a Muslim, but he must have some sympathies for the religion of his father. > > I do know this: The Liberation Theology spewed out at the church Obama attended is not authentic Christianity. Even protestants would agree with that. It has all to do with politics and racial power (the race depending on which race is preaching it) and very little to do with the Gospel. > > One time when John Paul II visted Nicaragua he publically chastised a priest that was espousing their Nicaraguan form of Liberation Theology. > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Oh, dear. > > Oh dear, oh dear. > > That’s… that’s precious. And really not accurate at all. Really? Then I take it that you have some inside information about the feelings he has towards his father & the faith of his father that we have no access to? My point was speculation, but it was informed speculation. I, as a man myself, still remember my youth with my dad, and how it has shaped me. Are you saying this is not possible for Obama? On what do tyou base your statement that what I said is “ **really not accurate at all** ”? BTW: I really don’t want to go too far in this direction since it has nothing to do with the thread topic. But I am interested to know how you know the inner mind of Obama. 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-a-catholic/570897.md?page=9)