Why would any woman choose to be a 2nd class person, which is what you seem to be choosing to me.
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia]
Why is Catholicism the most logical religion?
[/QUOTE]
I know that Islam is not the true religion because no one believed in Islam until the Prophet Mohammed came along.
I know that non-Catholic forms of Christianity are wrong because they claim to believe in the truth of Sacred Scripture, but reject the authority of the pope (see Matt. 16:16-18).
I know that rabbinical Judaism is not correct because it did not exist until the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.
While popes have contradicted each other on issues of faith and morals, none of them have ever issued an infallible statement that contradicts another infallible statement.
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
I converted from atheism to Catholicism because I realized that since the universe has not existed forever, that someone who is eternal must have created it…
[/QUOTE]
How did you reach this conclusion, i.e., how did you determine that the universe was created by an eternal “someone,” rather than having been preceded by another natural process which is currently outside the realm of scientific knowledge?
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
…Catholicism was the most logical religion.
[/QUOTE]
Why, in your opinion, is Catholicism the most logical religion?
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
I know that Islam is not the true religion because no one believed in Islam until the Prophet Mohammed came along.
[/QUOTE]
So there were Catholics before Peter went to Rome, then?
I should rephrase that as “So there were Catholics before Jesus was incarnated, then?”
[QUOTE=Kat]
How about nominal Catholics (cafeteria Catholics, twice-a-year Catholics, etc.)?
[/QUOTE]
Until they repent, they are not members of the Church.
[QUOTE=jayjay]
So there were Catholics before Peter went to Rome, then?
I should rephrase that as “So there were Catholics before Jesus was incarnated, then?”
[/QUOTE]
The Jews of the old covenant were Catholic in a way, as they led their lives in anticipation of the incarnation of Jesus.
[QUOTE=cwthree]
How did you reach this conclusion, i.e., how did you determine that the universe was created by an eternal “someone,” rather than having been preceded by another natural process which is currently outside the realm of scientific knowledge?
Why, in your opinion, is Catholicism the most logical religion?
[/QUOTE]
What caused that natural process? What made it create the universe when it did, instead of creating it earlier?
What’s your personal opinion of people (like me) who aren’t going to heaven, since we reject your religion? Do you have personal contempt for such people? Pity? Apathy?
Do you feel a personal responsibility to convert other people to your beliefs, or are you happy to live and let live?
[QUOTE=Lanzy]
Why would any woman choose to be a 2nd class person, which is what you seem to be choosing to me.
[/QUOTE]
The fact that the Catholic Church says that women cannot be priests does not mean that the Catholic Church thinks that women are second class people anymore than the fact that a scientist says that men cannot be mothers means that the scientist thinks that men are second class people.
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
The Jews of the old covenant were Catholic in a way, as they led their lives in anticipation of the incarnation of Jesus.
[/QUOTE]
Noooo…the Old Testament Jews did not lead their lives in anticipation of the incarnation. They led their lives as they did because God told them to. Not because he told them something was coming, but because he told them to, period. The Jewish concept of the Messiah is not congruous in pretty much any particular with the Christian concept of the Messiah without some serious twisting of Old Testament scripture, most of which was done in the writings of the New Testament. Of course, this goes into proofs for the Christian faith, which is never really a productive topic of discussion.
[QUOTE=Atomicktom]
What’s your personal opinion of people (like me) who aren’t going to heaven, since we reject your religion? Do you have personal contempt for such people? Pity? Apathy?
Do you feel a personal responsibility to convert other people to your beliefs, or are you happy to live and let live?
[/QUOTE]
To answer the first question: I do not feel personal contempt for those who reject my religion, but I do feel pity for them.
To answer the second question: I feel a personal responsibility to convert other people to my beliefs.
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
According to His Holiness Pope Pius IX, those who do not formally belong to the Church because they are ignorant of Her, and follow the natural law are material members of the Church, and will go to Heaven when they die.
[/QUOTE]
This is surprising, because by this logic humanity would have had a better track record of getting into heaven had the Catholic Church not existed at all, and evangelists who go to remote parts of the world to spread the gospel are actually doing more harm than good.
Of course this rests on my understanding that the Catholic “natural law” is dictated by the natural constitution of all humans as ordained by god, is inherent in every human, and is deducible by human logic.
ETA:
To elaborate with this in mind: if person A was living his life according to the “natural law” imprinted on him by god (how could he do anything but?) on a small island but completely unaware of the rest of the world and therefore the Catholic Church, would you be hurting him or helping him by trying to convert him?
[QUOTE=jayjay]
Noooo…the Old Testament Jews did not lead their lives in anticipation of the incarnation. They led their lives as they did because God told them to. Not because he told them something was coming, but because he told them to, period. The Jewish concept of the Messiah is not congruous in pretty much any particular with the Christian concept of the Messiah without some serious twisting of Old Testament scripture, most of which was done in the writings of the New Testament. Of course, this goes into proofs for the Christian faith, which is never really a productive topic of discussion.
[/QUOTE]
If you want a debate, please start another thread. I will be happy to debate you there.
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
Until they repent, they are not members of the Church.
[/QUOTE]
What constitutes membership in the Church?
[QUOTE=Traditional_Catholic]
I think that nuns should wear habits unless doing so is illegal, and that if it is illegal, that they should wear modest skirts or dresses.
[/QUOTE]
Would you please elaborate on why you hold this opinion?
[QUOTE= bathsheba]
My Catholic workmate’s husband had a vasectomy. Then they went to the priest and did a one-off confession. Then they went home and fucked like absolved repentent bunnies. Catholicism has a lot to recommend it.
[/QUOTE]
[hijack]If they don’t know that this isn’t anywhere NEAR how it works, you should probably tell them. Because it isn’t.[/hijack]
[QUOTE=Mojo Pin]
This is surprising, because by this logic humanity would have had a better track record of getting into heaven had the Catholic Church not existed at all, and evangelists who go to remote parts of the world to spread the gospel are actually doing more harm than good.
Of course this rests on my understanding that the Catholic “natural law” is dictated by the natural constitution of all humans as ordained by god, is inherent in every human, and is deducible by human logic.
ETA:To elaborate with this in mind: if person A was living his life according to the “natural law” imprinted on him by god (how could he do anything but?) on a small island but completely unaware of the rest of the world and therefore the Catholic Church, would you be hurting him or helping him by trying to convert him?
[/QUOTE]
I would be helping him by teaching him about Catholicism, because the Sacraments would make it easier for him to follow the natural law and for him to be forgiven when he does not. Baptism would impart sanctifying grace into his soul for the first time, allowing him to correspond to grace more easily. Confirmation would make him a soldier of the Holy Ghost, and would give him the graces that he would need to fulfill that role. For him to be forgiven without the Sacrament of Confession, he would need to be sorry for his sin sins because they offend God, but with the Sacrament of Confession he would only need to be sorry for his sins because he would be punished for them if he did not repent. Confession would also impart on him the grace to not commit the sin he confessed again. The Eucharist would help him to grow in holiness. The Sacrament of Matrimony would give him the graces that he would need for his married life. The Sacrament of Extreme Unction would prepare him for death. Finally, the Sacrament of Holy Orders would allow him to administer the Sacraments of Confirmation, Confession, Eucharist, Extreme Unction, and Holy Orders to others (a priest is not needed for Baptism or Matrimony).
People do not always follow the natural law. Otherwise there would be no murders or rapes.
[QUOTE=Bricker]
What constitutes membership in the Church?
[/QUOTE]
A member of the Church is anyone in the state of grace, in other words, any baptized person who has not committed any serious sins that God has not forgiven. The invincibly ignorant (the unbaptized who follow the natural law, but do not know that baptism is necessary for salvation) also become members of the Church upon death.
My question is this: why do you confess to a priest? I realize that St. Paul said if you confess your sins to one another and to God you are forgiven. Does this keep you from sinning the same sin again?
My reason for asking is this: I had an aunt (blood) and uncle (marriage) who belonged to some sect, First Born Church of the Brethren (or some sort). Uncle (by marriage) would molest his daughters, then raise his hand at church and “confess”: “I have sinned”. He was forgiven, & praised for his humility. This went on several times a year for about 20 years, while my aunt kept having & adopting (female) kids.
Anyway, “There is no condemnation for those of us who are in Christ Jesus.” Does that mean you don’t repeat the sin?
Love, Phil
[QUOTE=MissMossie]
Would you please elaborate on why you hold this opinion?
[/QUOTE]
I think that nuns should wear habits so that people can tell that they are nuns, so that people can go to them if they need help. Wearing a habit is also a good idea because it allows them to wear the same outfit everyday without having to worry about being fashionable or stylish. I think that priests should wear cassocks for the same reasons.