If you mean the Halti or the Gentle Leader these aren’t muzzles. They work like a halter on a horse, and are good for controlling dogs that pull. Dogs can still bite with them on.
Kiger, I’m thinking of something more along the lines of this:
The Mesh Muzzle or this:
Nylon Muzzle.
I do notice it says on the first one to not keep the muzzle on your dog for more than 20 minutes at a time, so perhaps it might not be that practical for longer walks. The plastic muzzles are a little too Hannibal Lecter, but are these acceptable solutions?
I for one don’t just rush and start petting dogs I don’t know. However, it happened once that I was sitting at the bar in my local and a friend of mine came in with his dog, that he said was very, very shy, so I just calmy held out my hand to let her get used to me. In the end she sat leaning against my stool and let me scratch her behind the ears, generally having a good time. Her human said that he never seen such behaviour before.
I was proud.
Yeah those will keep a dog from biting, but I’ve never seen them used outside the vet’s office. I’ve heard of repeat offenders being required to wear one out in public. Personally, I’d never own a dog that unpredictable.
This has been an eye-opener. First, I guess I’ve been naive all this time about the domesticity of dogs. I’ve only ever had one really bad dog experience-- I was walking out of a bagel shop eating and a husky, out of nowhere, lept up and bit my arm. Fortunately I had a thick jacket on. I have never tried to pet a dog who then bit me. (I was, however, bitten ferociously by a cat who was hanging around with my cat on the lawn. I blamed myself.)
I have cats, so I’m not petless or clueless about handling animals. If I let my cats out, and people pet them, I don’t feel that I could control or stop that. If you take your dog into a store full of people and then ignore her, then it’s really sort of too bad if someone pets the dog, IMO, especially when the dog makes overtures to you. Would a dog make overtures like that if it intended to bite? Maybe it would and I’m just canine ignorant, but so far I’ve never been bitten, so anecdotally it would seem that my method of determining canine friendliness works.
And sorry, no way is it the same as reaching out to touch a pregnant woman’s belly. People are not dogs; you do not, in the general course of life, touch people’s abdomens without intimate knowledge of them. Dogs, however are PETS, so we pet them. They also are capable of indicating their desire to be touched regardless of the owner’s feelings to the contrary (like bowert’s dogs. bowert, how can you reasonably expect people not to pet dogs that are so avidly seeking attention? Really, it seems like a lot to ask of people to ignore such pleas for petting. And if you’re not there to be asked for permission… it seems that there are a lot of people like me, who just innocently want to pet doggies and don’t realize it’s an etiquette or a massive safety issue.
I guess this is a bit more complicated than I thought. I never considered how dangerous dogs really were, how irritated people get when people pet their dogs, or how personally everyone takes it. Hmmm. Good to know.
Rubystreak I don’t actually expect people to not pet them. They’re very friendly and are people magnets. I do try to place them out of the way so that people who don’t like dogs don’t have to be anywhere near them, and they don’t draw so much attention. I would never leave unattended a dog that I wouldn’t trust around people. In fact, my SO’s son has a Queensland Heeler, who’s aggressive, and I never leave her (and rarely take her with me for the same reason).
What I do, though, is try to educate people. I have a chance to talk to them when they approach me about my dogs, and I can explain the territorialness that is pretty common around here with truck dogs. Especially since it’s usually kids. I don’t want to have some kids pet my dogs, and then think it’s OK to go up to any ol’ dog in a pickup and pet it, because odds are they’ll get bitten.
I haven’t ever got mad at people for the dog handling (well, I never expressed it to them), because I know they’re irresistable. I did come out of a store one time that I had just been in for a second, to see some people encouraging my dog to jump out of the truck. That’s just wrong, and I let them know it. I’m not equating your dog petting to teasing here though. I don’t think you were out of line petting a dog in a store, on a leash. Slightly inconsiderate at most, but why is a dog in a clothing store?? If I bring my dogs around people that closely, I definitely expect them to attract attention.
Ruby, dogs are very domesticated, but they’re also very much pack animals. If they think a stranger presents a threat to themselves or their master, they may growl, bark or snap. More likely than not, a well-trained (or even only somewhat trained) dog will never present a problem within his or her family, and probably never to anyone else. The problem is, you as a stranger don’t know if the dog is well-trained. An owner who’s given the dog mixed messages in training may have a dog that is unpredictable.
My husband, being a postal worker, has seen very lovable family dogs, who are normally fine with him being around, act absolutely ape at his approach if their family is outside and not paying attention to the approach of the postman. This dog suddenly ‘thinks’ something to the effect of “This guy is nice to me - but maybe he won’t be nice to my pack, and they don’t see him coming. Time to defend!” When the family notices he’s there, and assure the dog everything’s fine (speaking to the dog, petting it), then suddenly the dog calms down and is wagging its tail and happy.
I think the dog owner in the OP was out of line in having a dog in a clothing store and not keeping a super-sharp eye out in the process - for curious humans or doggie misbehavior. What if the dog lifted his leg on a clothing rack?
Yes, ask. You don’t even have to say, “May I pet your dog?” Just a simple inquisitive look at the owner to get a nod does the trick.
And I would also like to add that you should ask before touching someone’s baby. Just because someone’s baby is cute doesn’t mean you should reach out and stick your finger in its hand or stroke its head. Ask.
Yes, ask. Always, definitely.
I think that anyone who brings a dog into a store should keep a close eye on it for the reasons Ferret Herder gave, but I’ve never understood why people think that it’s their right to pet other people’s dogs. One wouldn’t, unannounced, walk up and touch their child if they seemed friendly (I hope), or touch someone’s handbag or coat. Whether you see a dog as a member of the family or a possession, or somewhere in between, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not your dog. All bets are off if the dog is unrestrained and friendly, but I consider restrained dogs to be off-limits unless I have permission. I’m going to stop now, before I go on a complete rant, but it strikes me as weird that some people have such a sense of entitlement about access to other people’s pets.
My Sasha is a lovely, lovable dog. She’s heard that Australian Shepherds are supposed to be reserved with strangers, but she’s not buying it. When we go to PetsMart, I’m always having to watch her so that she doesn’t go up to unsuspecting strangers, sit in front of them, and ask (in dog language) “Don’t you want to pet the pretty puppy?”
That said, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t come up to pet my dog without at least checking with me first (by voice or eye contact.) I used to have an Akita, and people would always charge up to her AS IF I DIDN’T EXIST and start petting her.
And no, I didn’t yell at them. I smiled through gritted teeth.
It’s exactly like coming up and touching someone else’s baby without asking the parent.
Hey, I definitely would have asked if the guy wasn’t deeply absorbed in convo with some girl. As it was, the dog and I understood each other and it worked out fine. It was the guy who had the problem and IMO he was out of line to bring a dog he himself considers dangerous into a clothing store.
I’m sorry, shrew, I have to be slightly offended by the above. Do you think I’m a moron? I would never touch another person’s child without express consent from the parent and the child. I’m a freakin’ school teacher, I know all about propriety in that area. Touching strange children borders on the illegal, if not the completely inappropriate, and does not need to be reiterated in a conversation about petting dogs.
Dogs are not children. I know this is a hard concept for pet owners; I love my cats AS IF they were my children, but THEY ARE NOT. Neither are they my property. They are autonomous adult creatures who have a will of their own and often act on that will without my permission. I am responsible for their health and safety, and if I think they’re dangerous or endangered, I would keep them away from people as much as possible. However, they are pets, so petting them when they give consent seems a non-controversial thing to do as long as it’s done respectfully.
Normally, I would ask. I don’t always, though, esp. if a dog approaches or engages me, as this one did. I gather this is not the majority view.
Thanks, bowert, for clarifying about your dogs. I do think it’s a bit different to approach another person’s vehicle (or house, for that matter) to solicit attention from someone else’s dog. I wouldn’t do that. This situation was not like that.
I’m glad you said that, Vihaga because I was starting to think I’ve been in violation of basic dog etiquette for most of my life. When a dog approaches me, tail waving, I feel that it’s the dog who has given permission and my job is to read the cues: tail up and wagging, tongue lolling, goofy smile means lets be pals. Ears back, tail down, suspicious demeanor, barking or growling, teeth bared (obviously) means don’t mess with me.
Of course I would never approach a working dog or waylay one on a leash without a nod from the owner. But I have no problem at all with allowing just about any dog (off leash and friendly) to approach me, without it. Either by good sense or good luck it seems to have worked out okay. I’ve never been bitten by a dog or cussed out by an owner (or vice versa).
Our Westie, Lassie, was a good dog and very well behaved, but in her old age, she was very tempermental and inclined to snap. My mother got one of those nylon muzzles to use when she and my father gave Lassie a haircut and when they took her to have her nails clipped. Despite that, she still once bit the vet and the doggie manicurist. (However, this was only in the last year before she died).
Dogs can be fussy, and we knew how to approach her-you didn’t startle her when she was sleeping, touch her snout, or bug her when she was eating. (The exception to this, being, our oldest cat Noel-who was Lassie’s baby, and who should let eat from her dish.)
She wasn’t a nasty little dog, either. She was extremely friendly when people came to the house and would jump all over them and want to be petted-especially by “Gramma”. But we still knew that if she was in a bad position, she’d snap.
So it’s definitely best to ask. Dogs can’t talk-they can’t say, “Hey, don’t touch me!”
Although I understand, since it’s REALLY hard to resist THIS face. But still, you never know.
" Don’t pet a dog without the owners permission" is something most people are taught (or at least someone tries to teach them) by the time a kid is 4 or 5, isn’t it? Before the kid is old enough to encounter dogs on their own anyway. I don’t remember ever encountering people who thought it was ok to just pet random dogs when I took mine on walks. It’s been a while since I walked a dog, but on the other hand we take walks at break, and we encounter dogs at least twice a week, and I’ve never known any of my coworkers to pet said dogs without asking first(at least until the dog knows them), so I figure it’s common knowledge anyway.
I agree that having a dog in a clothing store is pretty dumb, especially if it’s a potential biter, but just because you see a dog out and about with its owner you can’t assume that they’re people friendly; dogs need supervised excerise, and they’re not all hoping for attention. My dog was great, but she was super-protective of me. If you’d have come close enough to try to pet her you’d be barked and growled at- she was ok with kids, but not adults. Would she have bitten? I hope not, but it was my responsibilty as owner to warn off those who were too foolish to pick up on the sound cues that she wasn’t interested in being pet. Fortunately people listened to me when I said it wasn’t a good idea to pet her, and the only person she ever bit was a vet (after she’d been hit by a car). The owner in the store should have been paying more attention, but you need to ask if the owner isn’t for your own safety.
So…add me to the people saying you should always ask before petting. Even if you think the dog is a puppy still- it might turn out to be a grown and grouch dog, mine looked like a 6mo shepard puppy her whole life.