Oh definitely. I am by no means a clean freak anymore. Our guest bedroom has become a defacto storage room in our house, and it could certainly be considered cluttered. On the other hand, I’m not ashamed for someone to see it. We store stuff in that room, we don’t hide stuff in that room, ya know?
I’m at work, so all I will say (type) is that when my mother got sick (terminally), I cleaned out her bedroom while she was in hospital. The bedroom was the worse, though the whole house was not great.
Twenty-four. Twenty-four Robin Hood “Best For Bread” bread machine boxed mixes. In her bedroom. And that is just the one example that comes to mind, because I counted them as I found them. Twenty-four.
Of course, they had to be thrown out–long since the expiry date, and besides, 24 boxes… of just that one particular kind of bread machine mix. It must have been on sale.
My mum kept the living room, kitchen, bathroom, dining area fairly normal, but downstairs, in spare rooms, and in her bedroom… Compulsive shopping, no cleaning, some tendency toward alcohol abuse and depression, and I could have taken pictures and posted them to the squalor/hoarder sites, too.
I find the topic fascinating, as well. Maybe because I hate to throw things out, I love “stuff”, especially my stuff, and yet I also really enjoy having a clean, pleasant and ordered house. It’s just so nice to come home to. And yet… I am like a walking Pigpen–mess just seems to “happen”.
Good thread.
Same with my Wife and I. Our guest room is also storage. We have no garage. But my Mom has no problem (the cleanest person in the world ([sup]TM[/sup]) to sleep there when she visits.
Our computer loft and mud room has a tendency to collect crap too. That’s pretty much what they are for.
My Mom and Dad (divorced) are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to organization and cleaning.
My Dad is retired. If he would just put a little effort into keeping his house clean and his world in order, his house would be fine. He could then allow people to visit. He is starting to even turn me away from even coming over.
It’s very frustrating. I don’t mind working. I love helping my family. I don’t like getting yelled at for doing it.
I’m cleaning as I type. Just sprayed down the shower. Later I’ll spend 15 minutes cleaning up the grundge. BFD. Time management.
Perhaps that is part of it. When it can always be done tomorrow……there is always another tomorrow.
This has been a big thorn in my side for quite some time. I have addressed my Dad with it with compassion, humor, reason, and camaraderie. Nothing works.
‘cause it will get done tomorrow.
It’s like trying to have a tea party in a landfill. My Dad’s reaction to me trying to help is like trying to plant a garden when you’re under heavy artillery attack.
It seems to be more wide spread than I thought.
Thank you dopers. Good to not be alone.
I think the same exact thing except it’s my mother. I swear it’s awful but besides grieving her death someday, I dread when I and my sisters will have to clean that apartment. I’m talking hazardous gear and masks.
It’s an overwhelming utter mess.
I suspect that my Dads house will be a scraper. The foundation should be OK though.
Thank God for my dear Wife. She understands this difficult situation. She knows because we have some similar issues with her folks.
My Wife’s folks let us help them. My Dad, not so much.
My job is to continue to support a healthy and happy marriage to someone I dearly love.
I’m cleaning the house tonight. Gee, I wonder why?
When my mother was dying, I went to the house my parents lived in and would stay two weeks or so at a time. There wasn’t much to do other than just be there for my mum, help her out as best I could, and clean. Her room was like you see on those websites or in How Clean Is Your House? You couldn’t walk through it, and she only slept on part of the bed–a large bed, at that–because of all the stuff on the bed. There was no room on the floor, on the bureau, in the drawers, closet. Just massive amounts of stuff. Some of it was brand new clothes with the tags still on, some was baby pamphlets from 1968 (I kid you not) and some were literal mounds and mounds of newspapers she couldn’t throw out, because she “hadn’t read them yet”. I just worked on it every night. Just started near the door, and gradually opened up more and more space. I did massive amounts of laundry, threw out the newspapers and garbage, and salvaged an amazing amount of stuff. With the garbage out, it was easier to keep what I didn’t throw out in some semblance of order. We always knew it would come to me “cleaning up her room” some day, but I was not going to let her come home from the hospital (she was in and out of hospital until she finally went into hospice) to that room.
She was, of course, deeply ashamed of the mess, dirt and stuff, and at the same time, there wasn’t anything I or anyone else could do or say to change the way she was.
We took two truckloads of garbage, and ‘stuff’ to the dump, and that sort of made a dent in it. But yeah. Like the other thread about ‘what are you scared you could turn into?’ I can totally see myself going down the same road. The only thing that saves me is that I like some serenity, cleanliness and order in my own home, and I do get on tossing binges where I really, really enjoy filling up garbage bags of crap I’ve clung to. I keep telling myself that my home and my time and space have more importance than to be a storage space for crap.
Getting rid of the crap (and yes, the three years’ worth of Time magazines I still have, among other things) also allows you to find and enjoy possessions that have much more meaning. It’s hard to enjoy a music collection because you can’t get to it due to the hoard of magazines you’re never, ever going to read again are in the way.
We have a back bedroom that’s nothing but a large storage closet, and every time I go in there, and fill up a garbage bag of STUFF I do not need or want or cannot use, it does feel great.
Let me first add to all the others thanking you for starting this thread, lisacurl. I wanted to read the whole thing before replying, but there are too many posts and I wanted to get this in before I had to get to bed.
From what I’ve read in this thread and from having poked around on some of the squalor Web sites, it’s become pretty clear to me that I suffer from this disorder and have for as long as I can remember. For most of my life, I’ve lived with other people, so the squalor never got too bad because someone else—a relative or roommate—would get so fed up with the mess that they’d clean it up against my will. And that was a horrible experience, having someone digging through my things and throwing stuff away (and sometimes throwing out things I really wanted, like a pair of very expensive theatre tickets that I very luckily found after tearing open several trash bags full of stuff).
But for a couple of years, I did live in an apartment by myself, and the squalor, while not as bad as the pictures on some of the Web sites, was out of control. There were pizza boxes everywhere. A half-eaten bucket of KFC sat on the coffee table for months. Disgusting, filthy dishes sat in stagnant water in the sink. The kitchen was filled with fruit flies and the place stank horribly.
The air-conditioner (a window unit) had a tendency to leak water onto the wall below it and that became moldy (after I moved out, the owner of the building called to scream at me because the worker who had to fix the wall got sick from the mold). To be fair, I did try to tell the landlady about the mold, but she rarely answered her phone and didn’t return messages. I caught her in the parking lot one day, but she just told me to wash the wall with soap and water as she breezed by me on the way to her car. So, it’s not like I didn’t try to do anything about it, but if I’m honest, I think I have to say that I could have tried a little more aggressively. Had I know that the grey stuff on the wall was mold and not just discoloration from the water, I definitely would have tried harder.
I don’t know how to not be this way. I know in my head that it’s my own actions that cause this, but emotionally, it feels like it completely out of my hands, like someone else is doing it to me.
Well, anyway, I need to get to bed. I’ll read the thread in its entirety tomorrow.
My dad’s hoarding was kept in check while my mom was still married to him, but after she left, he went hog wild with it. After he died, we had to clean out his house, and that’s when we saw the extent of his hoarding/squalor. It wasn’t too bad compared to some of the stories here, but he only had five years or so to do it in - if he hadn’t died when he did, it would have just gone on getting worse (I would bet you money he hadn’t cleaned a thing since my mom left five years ago). He couldn’t do stairs any longer, so the filth was limited to the main floor - small mercies, eh?
On my own, I went the other way - I have a tendency to purge the house of crap (even if I am still a half-assed housecleaner), and am not sentimental at all about my shit - if it’s broken/unused/doesn’t fit/out of style/expired/whatever, out it goes. Unfortunately, my husband has packrat tendencies, probably caused by moving too often as a kid and his parents throwing his stuff away. Fortunately, he got to see the state of my dad’s house, and hopefully took the message to heart - you don’t need all the toys you had as a kid, much less the damned boxes they came in. If it were up to me, I’d spend a week just going through the house and throwing shit out about once a year. We’re still working on finding a middle ground.
On the one hand, don’t kick yourself too much, because you’re not living in squalor on purpose. On the other hand, the only one doing it is you, and the only one who can fix it is you. I think you are trying to get security from your surroundings instead of getting it from yourself and your belief in your ability to handle life. These are not permanent things; this is all fixable if you’re willing to do the work. I think your first step is a counsellor who understands where you’re coming from and how to get where you need to go.
Good luck with it - you deserve to live a healthy, happy life as much as anyone else.
My dad was a bit like this… he kept the curtains closed all the time and had plastic sheets over the windows in wooden frams he built to better insulate. In reality, it just meant no fresh air in the house. He had tons of stuff from the 60s and 70s in boxes all over the place. When he passed away this last summer, we spent 4 months cleaning the place out and filled about 100 cubic meters in 4 dumpters to get rid of it all (of course sorting through it to find things worth keeping).
I feel sad that he had the means to live well, but spent the last 20 years in an effective cave.
I have a good friend who has become a compulsive hoarder over the last seven or so years. She is still living in her parents’ home. Both parents have passed on.
She cannot have friends over to socialize, nor could she have them come over after the parents’ funerals, due to the cluttered condition of the house. There are narrow trails in a couple of rooms, lots of almost-empty bottles of lotion in the bathroom, and she has not slept in her own bedroom for several years since she can no longer get in there. She knows she has a problem and many of us are aware of it.
She spends most of her time at work and then a lot of time going out on weekends so she can avoid what’s at home.
One of our mutual friends wonders if we should tell her that we will give her another year or so to seek professional help, get therapy, make some progress, etc., decide whether she wants to make it her own home or move out…and then, if she doesn’t do anything in a year or two, maybe we should show up on her doorstep and offer an intervention because it makes us all so sad that she lives like this and it’s not exactly healthy for her either, mentally or physically.
Questions: Is it at all a good idea to give her a deadline? Could it possibly work? Will she hate us for the rest of our lives if we confront her?
What do you folks think?
Very interesting and informative thread, lisacurl, and bravo for your bravery in addressing this issue. I never really thought about it as something that affected many people.
But I do remember my friend’s house, when I was in fourth grade, was absolutely filthy. I was absolutely shocked and amazed that anybody could live that way. There were piles of clothing and crap all over the living room, you had to launch yourself all over these piles to get to the kitchen, but really you didn’t want to make it to the kitchen, because there were rat droppings all over in the silverware drawer and on the counters. It was the first and last time I ever went to her house because it was the most acutely uncomfortable experience. I can’t even imagine living there.
Regrettably, I had a neighbor once who lived in far worse conditions, who would come to our door and ask if it was safe to cook a box of noodles with dead bugs in them. That is the mildest story–the others were too disgusting to mention.
So when I put my mind to it, I see there are examples everywhere, even in my own memory. But you’ve offered a unique insight into this condition and I appreciate you raising awareness.
I might be Level 1. My mother was a neat freak and a control freak and wanted everything to be done just-so. I rebel–and I rebel against my husband when he nags me to clean. The thought of rotting food or animal droppings just laying around is repulsive to me, and I am profoundly mold phobic, so I know I would never let it get that bad. But I have let half-empty soda cans and stacks of junk mail pile up, and I lose things in my clutter from time to time. I am often terrified of letting people into my house when it isn’t spotless.
I’m curious what the warning signs for having a propensity to be a hoarder would be?
The only thing I know for sure… reading this thread makes me want to scrub my entire house from top to bottom. But thanks for sharing.
I agree with those who say it can be linked to emotional health. As I’ve grown both older and happier, I take more pride in my home. I’ve probably been stage 2-3 at my worst. Currently, only the bedrooms are untidy.
A quick vacuum and dust would have the whole place ready for royalty, friends and family are always welcome. I’ll apologise for the mess, even if it’s spotless.
There’s an old Scots tradition of cleaning the house from top to bottom before New Year’s Eve, so that spiritually you take no unnecessary muck into the new year.
I’ll be spending the weekend cleaning. Especially since my kid is away for a week and I know things will *stay *clean!
Great thread.
Wow. Fantastic thread. For someone like me who inherited her Grandmother’s house, which still housed HER mother’s stuff and who lost both a mother and father in rapid succession, and brought THEIR stuff home, I need a kick up the arse for forever whinging about how boxes of crap never get sorted, books never get sorted and drawers are forever full of shit I don’t need. My house is spotless. My drawers are tidy and my closets admirable - because we have a bungalow out the back that is full to bursting with shit I need to sort. I am on 3 weeks holiday. Tomorrow I am going to start going through mine and everyone else’s stuff I have been storing since 1973 (I wish I was making this up). And the reason the house itself is so clean (I think there’s an OCD thing going on here) is because it’s all too easy to whack it in a box and shove it in the bungalow. This is an inspirational thread. This is a fabulous thread and I thank you and I wish all of you who are living in squalor/depression/anxiety/unhappiness a step by step (one drawer at a time - preferably on the loungeroom floor to a favourite CD) 2008 clutter-free life. Damn - where are those photos that I’ve been meaning to sort?
Yours, in admiration and respect, DellieM
I also dread when my mother passes. I am sure the renting of a dumpster will be in order.
What I fear more though is the passing of her landlord. He is much older than her, at least a good ten years or more, and I fear what will happen to the property. He is a slum loard and has been for years. I used to live next door, I know how bad it is. The place is way under code. I don’t think there is one thing on the inside or outside that would pass inspection.
If she would have to move out I don’t even want to think about the drama that is going to happen. I know she is going to want to take all of her things with more than fifty percent of it being old junk. Also finding her a place she can afford would be very hard. She only pays $450 a month rent and that includes all the utilities.
She does have an upstairs to her place but she can not handle the stairs. I know there is some stuff up there but it is limited mostly to stuff she had from a garage sale that went sour. She priced the stuff so high that none of it sold.
I don’t know if it is true of all hoarders but my mom buys items to organize her stuff. Shelves, trays and bins. It is like she has it in her head that if she can just get her items organized then it would not be cluttered and messy. There is no way to organize the stuff. I think she tries to but it becomes such a major task because she is not willing to get rid of anything that she gives up leaving more of a mess than she started out with or she basically moved the stuff to the other side of the room but it is now in a tray, bin or on a shelf. That just leaves new places for more stuff to get stacked on.
I am neither a neat freak nor a hoarder. My house has the lived in look but the dishes are washed, the bathroom is clean and the floors are swept/vacumned on a regular basis. There is some dust here and there though.
There are times I let me crochet stuff get a little messy but I straighten it all up about every two months or so and it all resides in one corner of my bedroom. I also throw stuff away if it is broken or I no longer have use for it. I go through my desk at least once a year and throw out old papers I no longer need to keep.
I can’t stand clutter. It gets on my nerves if stuff piles up. Old newspapers and ads are thrown out as soon as possible. The older I get the more it bothers me and the more I get rid of stuff.
This is a fascinating thread. Thanks for the discussion, LisaC.
My grandmother was something of a hoarder, but very clean despite her saving of everything from bread crusts to goods she had canned 25 years ago. I think, however, that even if her saving was a wee bit pathological, it was due to the indelible impression the Great Depression made on her as a young mother. My Dad’s side is the opposite: pathologically and neurotically clean. Going to that grandma’s house was like going to an antiseptic operating room – other grandma’s house was much more welcoming.
I’ve posted this before (last year?) in a similar thread, but I’ll go again. Where I grew up in Utah, people often had far too many children (Mormons = no birth control; God will send you as many children as he wants you to have). Naturally, if you have 14 kids and aren’t Steve Jobs there will be financial issues. I knew of at least four neighbors with massive amounts of kids who lived in utter filth. One friend’s home had baby shit all over the floor (always!) and another friend’s house had partially burned down and the parents’ solution was to buy a bunch of beat-up campers and “graft” them onto the remains of the semi-salvageable parts of the burnt house. They had 11 kids. Another friend’s family consisted of 16 members in a three room ranch-style house. It was a horrific madhouse: the squalor was beyond description. The only descriptor that’s even close is “animal-like.”
A few of the kids from these families managed to escape and have at least semi-normal lives. Most of them are damaged people who are repeating their parents’ lifestyles of violent squalor and economic chaos. I salute those who have been able to escape these kinds of horrifying conditions and thank you for sharing your stories.
One thing I’ve learned from being a co-facilitator at an anxiety self-help group is that you can’t help someone who won’t help themselves. Your friend has to make the decision to get help herself, or it won’t mean anything and she won’t do the (incredibly hard) work it will take. That said, I’m sure there are ways of expressing your care and concern to her that won’t result in her getting defensive and shutting you down. The trick is finding them.
There are what is called an intervention and I would go to the Children of Hoarders message board and get information on it before you do any type of confrontation. They have lots of information you can print out.
You must be prepared for her to get angry and you may lose a friend over it.
If she is willing be prepared for her to want to hold on to things that are just plain trash to you but to her they are memories. Sometimes throwing out some old magazine to them is like throwing out a charished photo to you. It has meaning to them which makes no sense to you or I.
I would also be prepared for her place to return to squalor if she does not get some help beyond you and her other friends.
Fascinating thread. It’s funny to me that hoarding and squalor seem to be so closely linked. I guess the clutter would prevent you from properly vacuuming and other such chores, but beyond that… I can definitely understand the “collector’s mentality” because I have it myself. But a big part of that is keeping things pristine and displaying them in an orderly way. I can’t intuitively understand how hoarding non-trash leads to leaving food to rot on a counter or dirty diapers to spill onto the floor.