# Ask the atheist, 15 year old, male Hoosier.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436>\
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\
**Created:** [March 20, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436 "2005-03-20T16:52:20Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/41 "2005-03-21T21:14:58Z")

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**Othersider** , I admit that I do not know that there is no god. I believe that there is no god. And no evolution does not preclude a creator, but Occams Razor. A creator is not necessary and merely complicates things.

**ouryL** , same to you. Erm, well, too late I guess. Well in 364 days then.

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**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/42 "2005-03-21T21:35:42Z")

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> [@Othersider](#):
>
> You seem to be assuming that all people who believe in gods worship them and do in their name the types of activities we see carried out by cults and such.

With all due respect this is a notion that theists too often attribute to athesits.

We fully understand that the vast majority of theists do not do harmfull things in their god’s name. But the statement “They convince people to do things they really shouldn’t be doing in their name.” Is still essetially true. The phenomenon of God (whatever it is) does indeed convince peope to do things they shouldn’t.

That idea, and the statement “all believers do bad things in god’s name” are totally different statements. So the idea that the statement “They convince people to do things they really shouldn’t be doing in their name” implies the assumption that “all people who believe in gods worship them and do in their name the types of activities we see carried out by cults” is completely false.

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**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/43 "2005-03-22T01:26:20Z")

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With the closest good basketball team to here being Gonzaga, after this weekend I can affirm that Bobby Knight is not God but indeed is the antichrist, the apostate, Baalzebub, the Lord of the Flies, the Source of All Evil. And this coming from an IU grad (not that I felt differently while I was still there).

Hey, if you’re in the B-ton area get involved with WFHB-- they used to have a show run by people in their teens which was very cool.

Do you play euchre?

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**Author:** ![Foible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Foible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foible)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/44 "2005-03-22T01:58:22Z")

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What do you use to support your moral framework? In other words, what are the fundamental ideas that lead you to behave the way you do? Are these flexible or imutable?

What’s your favorite kind of cookie?

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**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/45 "2005-03-22T03:38:37Z")

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Fellow Hoosier here.

How are you so well spoken for a 15 year old? Public school? Private school? Home school? Child prodigy?

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**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/46 "2005-03-22T05:47:04Z")

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Strinka, I know you said your parents are athiests and taught you similarly, but I have found that part of that education usually includes learning something about religions.

Did you attend services anywhere on a semi-regular basis? And if so, which religions? What was your impression of the service(s)?

How much do you know about various religions, communion, the bible, etc.?

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**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/47 "2005-03-22T14:30:43Z")

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> [@Strinka](#):
>
> \<most of post #29

Coupla thoughts…

Given the existence of a “religious centre” in the brain which manifests apparent religious experiences when electrically stimulated, is it not therefore fair to observe that, since the visual and audial centres of the brain are capable of synthesising complex sounds and pictures under suitable conditions - even in the absence of external stimuli - it logically follows that external stimuli do not necessarily exist? “I can dream. Therefore, assuming the existence of any external ‘reality’ to account for any sights and sounds that my brain experiences is only multiplying entities needlessly, in flat defiance of Occam’s Razor.”

Given the non-existence of any God whatever, does it not logically follow that what we call “thought” is merely random electrical activity in the coincidental assembly of certain types of organic molecule, and that we cannot assume that any chain of so-called “reasoning” founded on this entirely random and meaningless activity can possibly have any validity whatever? (Obviously I am sawing off the branch on which I am sitting here, since I am attempting to use logic to demonstrate that I cannot assume that logic is valid, but this is only the other side of the coin from insisting that I really _can_ pull myself up by my bootstraps.)

Those who believe in God aren’t necessarily deluded eejits, and those who take exception to being called such aren’t necessarily annoyed only at being found out. Just a thought. Sometimes it’s because they… _checks forum_ … form a negative opinion of your humility and good manners. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Othersider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/48 "2005-03-22T22:09:05Z")

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> [@Lobsang](#):
>
> With all due respect this is a notion that theists too often attribute to athesits.
> 
> We fully understand that the vast majority of theists do not do harmfull things in their god’s name. But the statement “They convince people to do things they really shouldn’t be doing in their name.” Is still essetially true. The phenomenon of God (whatever it is) does indeed convince peope to do things they shouldn’t.
> 
> That idea, and the statement “all believers do bad things in god’s name” are totally different statements. So the idea that the statement “They convince people to do things they really shouldn’t be doing in their name” implies the assumption that “all people who believe in gods worship them and do in their name the types of activities we see carried out by cults” is completely false.

I see your point, and it’s a good one. I hope you also get my point that the fact that some people do things in the name of God just because their deluded selves may think it’s what He’d want, when in fact often it’s probably not, isn’t evidence that God doesn’t exist.

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**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/49 "2005-03-22T22:34:11Z")

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> [@capybara](#):
>
> Do you play euchre?

I know how, but I suck at it.

> [@Foible](#):
>
> What do you use to support your moral framework? In other words, what are the fundamental ideas that lead you to behave the way you do? Are these flexible or imutable?
> 
> What’s your favorite kind of cookie?

As to your first question: happiness is good. Unhappiness is bad. An action that causes happiness is a good action; an action that causes unhappiness is an evil action. That is immutable. However, given different contexts, the same action could cause happiness or unhappiness and hence be either good or evil, so that is kind of flexible.

I’ve never given thought to my favorite kind of cookie. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll come up with an answer later.

> [@Ruby](#):
>
> How are you so well spoken for a 15 year old? Public school? Private school? Home school? Child prodigy?

First, this is as text. I probably wouldn’t be anywhere near as well spoken IRL. I have more time to think about the exact wording I want to use like this. I do go to a public school, however next year I will go to a school for gifted kids. Technically it’s a public school too, but you have to apply and be accepted, so only smart kids get in. I wouldn’t say I’m a prodigy, but I am smarter than average (or at least a good test taker: 1370 on the SAT freshman year!).

> [@Large Marge](#):
>
> Strinka, I know you said your parents are athiests and taught you similarly, but I have found that part of that education usually includes learning something about religions.
> 
> Did you attend services anywhere on a semi-regular basis? And if so, which religions? What was your impression of the service(s)?
> 
> How much do you know about various religions, communion, the bible, etc.?

I didn’t attend church services often. Only once actually. I didn’t pay much attention and it was a long time ago, so I don’t remember well, but I know that I didn’t like it. Occasionally, we read from the bible. But not the parts that people quote and say “See how great and loving God is?” We read the parts that talk about how a woman is unclean for so many weeks if she gives birth to a boy and twice that long if she gives birth to a girl.

I know a lot about Buddhism, quite a bit about Christianity, some about Judaism, a little about Islam, and almost none at all about Hinduism. Any religions I left off that list, I probably don’t know much about either.

> [@Malacandra](#):
>
> Given the existence of a “religious centre” in the brain which manifests apparent religious experiences when electrically stimulated, is it not therefore fair to observe that, since the visual and audial centres of the brain are capable of synthesising complex sounds and pictures under suitable conditions - even in the absence of external stimuli - it logically follows that external stimuli do not necessarily exist? “I can dream. Therefore, assuming the existence of any external ‘reality’ to account for any sights and sounds that my brain experiences is only multiplying entities needlessly, in flat defiance of Occam’s Razor.”
> 
> Given the non-existence of any God whatever, does it not logically follow that what we call “thought” is merely random electrical activity in the coincidental assembly of certain types of organic molecule, and that we cannot assume that any chain of so-called “reasoning” founded on this entirely random and meaningless activity can possibly have any validity whatever?

So, are you saying that A does not necessarily equal A because just electrical activity in organic molecules reasoned it?

And yes, I agree that it is possible that this doesn’t exist. That I could be just a brain in Dr. Xmuglu’s lab. But I have no evidence to support that, whereas I do have evidence, albeit unreliable evidence, that I am, in fact, typing this right now.

I also agree that what we call ‘thought’ is merely electrical activity in complex organic molecules, however it is not random. I also don’t believe in free will. I do believe that for practical purposes we should act as if we did have free will.

> [@Othersider](#):
>
> I see your point, and it’s a good one. I hope you also get my point that the fact that some people do things in the name of God just because their deluded selves may think it’s what He’d want, when in fact often it’s probably not, isn’t evidence that God doesn’t exist.

I do. I can’t speak for **Lobsang** , but it seems to obvious to miss.

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**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\
**Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/50 "2005-03-22T22:37:09Z")

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You do speak for me comrade. 🙂

I liked your link BTW, the one about the god effect.

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**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/51 "2005-03-23T00:21:41Z")

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If you had posted this in Great Debates instead of MPSIMS (which would have violated protocol, there not being any debate here) the most interesting aspect of your OP would be your Hoosierness, not your atheism. Atheists are a dime a dozen over there, but Hoosiers are rare.

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**Author:** ![Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunshine_and_Smiles)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/52 "2005-03-23T00:44:03Z")

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I guess my number one question is, why aren’t you a Dukie?

~S&S (a nonreligious, 15 year old, male Dukie)

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**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/53 "2005-03-23T03:47:38Z")

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> [@Strinka](#):
>
> I didn’t attend church services often. Only once actually. I didn’t pay much attention and it was a long time ago, so I don’t remember well, but I know that I didn’t like it. Occasionally, we read from the bible. But not the parts that people quote and say “See how great and loving God is?” We read the parts that talk about how a woman is unclean for so many weeks if she gives birth to a boy and twice that long if she gives birth to a girl.

Yes, the bible is a strange book, indeed.

I’m surprised your parents didn’t encourage more study of religions, just so that you aren’t wondering as an adult what all the hoopla is about. Without that experience, how do you explain people with strong faiths?

And, in light of Sept. 11, are you curious about Islam, its followers and their motivations?

If possible, could you please answer me individually, instead of lumping me in with several other different questions/answers?

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**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/54 "2005-03-23T12:23:08Z")

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> [@Large Marge](#):
>
> I’m surprised your parents didn’t encourage more study of religions, just so that you aren’t wondering as an adult what all the hoopla is about. Without that experience, how do you explain people with strong faiths?

Seconding **Large Marge** here. Not only is the Bible and other scripture worth studying in order to understand religion and religious people, it also is necessary for any deep understanding of history and literature.

Plus, it is fascinating and often beautiful in its own right. Although I am neither Christian nor Jew, I have transcribed all of Psalms, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Songs as part of my ritual of transcribing poetry (forces me to slow down, pay attention, read closely, spend time with it). And in my dark hours I often find comfort in scriptures and hymns.

I wish there were a “Bible in a year” study course that came from a scholarly faith-neutral perspective.

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**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/55 "2005-03-23T13:37:20Z")

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> [@Sunshine and Smiles](#):
>
> I guess my number one question is, why aren’t you a Dukie?
> 
> ~S&S (a nonreligious, 15 year old, male Dukie)

He’s atheist, not amoral. A better question is why aren’t you a Terp?

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**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/56 "2005-03-23T21:29:16Z")

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> [@Sunshine and Smiles](#):
>
> I guess my number one question is, why aren’t you a Dukie?
> 
> ~S&S (a nonreligious, 15 year old, male Dukie)

What’s a Dukie?

> [@Wolfian](#):
>
> He’s atheist, not amoral. A better question is why aren’t you a Terp?

What’s a Terp?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/57 "2005-03-23T21:49:15Z")

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> [@Large Marge](#):
>
> I’m surprised your parents didn’t encourage more study of religions, just so that you aren’t wondering as an adult what all the hoopla is about. Without that experience, how do you explain people with strong faiths?

What needs to be explained? People believe many weird things.

> [@](#):
>
> And, in light of Sept. 11, are you curious about Islam, its followers and their motivations?

Not particularly.

> [@](#):
>
> If possible, could you please answer me individually, instead of lumping me in with several other different questions/answers?

OK, but I’ll also respond to **Sample\_the\_Dog** , because s/he is talking about the same thing. Why?

> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#):
>
> Seconding Large Marge here. Not only is the Bible and other scripture worth studying in order to understand religion and religious people, it also is necessary for any deep understanding of history and literature.

Oh? What do you mean by a deep understanding of history and literature?

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**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/58 "2005-03-23T23:55:30Z")

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> [@Strinka](#):
>
> What do you mean by a deep understanding of history and literature?

Starting with the latter: It’s simply impossible to understand Literature in English without reference to the Bible. From the medieval poets to Shakespeare to Faulkner, if you don’t know your Bible, you’re going to miss half the allusions and much of the subtlety. Some key works, such as Spencer’s The Faerie Queene and Milton’s Paradise Lost simply can’t be read with any degree of skill without a grounding in Biblical iconography.

As for the former: Without knowledge of the Bible, much of Western history – by which I mean not only events, but also the historical records themselves, especially records of popular response and political propaganda – is not fully comprehensible. Even today, you can’t understand the mindset, and therefore the actions, of certain important leaders such as Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush without understanding their stance on Biblical scripture. To comprehend why our current President makes some of the hugely significant choices he does in the way that he does, for example, it is necessary to know something about modern day interpretations of prophecy, the doctrine of the “raising up of nations”, etc.

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**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\
**Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/59 "2005-03-24T00:13:21Z")

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**Sample\_the\_Dog** may be correct about needing to understand parts of the Bible to understand things, but the case may be overstated. I’m an atheist (22-year-old New Yorker living in Illinois) and I haven’t read it cover to cover and don’t plan to. But through discussions here, reading parts and otherwise getting involved in debates related to the Bible I think I have a decent understanding of things. On the other hand I don’t come from an atheist background.

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**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\
**Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/60 "2005-03-24T01:23:50Z")

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:dubious:I read the whole thing, and western history _still_ doesn’t make sense to me.

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