# Ask the atheist, 15 year old, male Hoosier. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 20, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436 "2005-03-20T16:52:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/61 "2005-03-24T01:26:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Sample\_the\_Dog** may be correct about needing to understand parts of the Bible to understand things, but the case may be overstated. \ I haven’t read it cover to cover and don’t plan to. But through discussions here, reading parts and otherwise getting involved in debates related to the Bible I think I have a decent understanding of things. Actually, I would agree that it’s not necessary to read it all, and certainly not necessary to study it all in depth. Certain sections are much more widely read and influential than others (though which sections are more important can change over time). I’m simply saying that you can’t be ignorant of the Bible if you want to study Western lit or history in depth. Sometimes, it’s more important to understand how the Bible is misread than to understand the original intent. And again, even if one doesn’t believe in God, there’s a tremendous amount of wisdom, beauty, lore, and even humor if you know where to look, to be had there. Certainly, though, the Bible isn’t enough. Especially these days. For instance, if you want to get all the juice out of the Matrix films, it’s worthwhile looking into the basics of several mythologies (eg Hindu and Buddhist). I reckon my point is just this – don’t go 'round ignorant. (I think you would agree with this, **Marley23** , so it’s not a dig at you, btw). Scripture and religion are so important to human history and culture that anyone with an intellectual or curious nature can’t afford to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/62 "2005-03-24T02:00:54Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > What’s a Dukie? > > What’s a Terp? College sports teams. Duke (Dukie) Blue Devils and Maryland Terrapins (Terps). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/63 "2005-03-24T02:02:37Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > I’m simply saying that you can’t be ignorant of the Bible if you want to study Western lit or history in depth. Sometimes, it’s more important to understand how the Bible is misread than to understand the original intent. If that was the meaning of your comments I can’t argue with a word of it. > [@](#): > > I reckon my point is just this – don’t go 'round ignorant. (I think you would agree with this, **Marley23** , so it’s not a dig at you, btw). No dig taken. And of all the places online or off you could say that, I think this is the best one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/64 "2005-03-24T02:14:53Z")
Well, **Sample\_the\_Dog** , can’t really argue with that. Of course it’s true that religion has greatly influenced history and literature. It seems to me that understanding that so-and-so did such-and-such because he was religious is enough. Yes, it would be better to know more about it and understand it better. I’m just not terribly interested in it, so I don’t seek out knowledge about it with some [exceptions](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=304570). I will never be willfully ignorant, though. Thanks **Wolfian**. As to why I’m not a Dukie or a Terp: I’m not really a fan of any sports teams. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/65 "2005-03-24T02:19:52Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > It seems to me that understanding that so-and-so did such-and-such because he was religious is enough. I would strongly disagree with that notion. But then, you’re a young fellow and I’m not. So I’ll let you discover for yourself whether you ever come to agree with me. I doubt anything I say will change your mind right now. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/66 "2005-03-24T06:59:03Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > What needs to be explained? People believe many weird things. I think it’s more complex than that. Do you really see it as that simple or are you being flip because you’re feeling a bit on the defensive? I have to say I’m kinda disappointed, because the OP was “ask the athiest,” but I’ve received only very short and sometimes curt answers. This is a topic in which I’m very interested. Religion, faith, athiesm are very complex issues. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/67 "2005-03-24T07:05:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Sample\_the\_Dog** may be correct about needing to understand parts of the Bible to understand things, but the case may be overstated. I’m an atheist (22-year-old New Yorker living in Illinois) and I haven’t read it cover to cover and don’t plan to. But through discussions here, reading parts and otherwise getting involved in debates related to the Bible I think I have a decent understanding of things. On the other hand I don’t come from an atheist background. I think it’s something everyone should read (or at least try to read, with the exception of Genesis, perhaps) in full. I didn’t read it when I was an Episcopalian, but I did read it while I was an athiest. I don’t think it’s possible to have a good understanding of the bible - or any book - without actually reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/68 "2005-03-24T12:45:58Z")
> [@Large Marge](#): > > Religion, faith, athiesm are very complex issues. Do you disagree? I too was hoping for more detailed discussion, but while you see religion as a complex issue, I see it as a huge mess caused by peoples willingness to believe, thus deserving only as much time as a person wants to spend discussing it, not needing complex answers at all. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/69 "2005-03-24T13:09:51Z")
> [@Large Marge](#): > > with the exception of Genesis, perhaps Try [Genesis: Translation and Commentary](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/039331670X/qid=1111670665/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-1340374-6691936), by Robert Alter (Editor). Nothing I’ve seen even comes close to rendering the Book of Genesis in English with the accuracy and poetic force of Alter’s translation. And his commentary is some of the best I’ve seen in making the ancient ideas comprehensible to non-scholars. Here’s how his translation begins: > [@](#): > > When God began to create heaven and earth, and the earth then was welter and waste and darkness over the deep and God’s breath hovering over the waters, God said, “Let there be light.” ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/70 "2005-03-24T13:10:58Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > I see it as a huge mess caused by peoples willingness to believe, thus deserving only as much time as a person wants to spend discussing it, not needing complex answers at all. Of course it’s complex. I’m really at a loss for words here. This POV astounds me, to be blunt. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/71 "2005-03-24T13:44:54Z")
Sorry for the hijack,hoosiers, but where many see poetry, I see a badly done mishmash of legends from many cultures. I can almost see how you can like the book, but for every part that seems beautiful, I say as badly rendered in the original hebrew/aramaic/whatever, having read a lot of the old testament/torah in my jewish Sunday school equivalent. I also am able to see some quite odd imagery, for a book atributed, or inspired by a “god”, for example the first words: “In the beginning created God…” as in the original language, “Let\* us\* make man in our image.”, the almost editing out of god’s wife [“Yahweh and his Asherah,”](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0814322719/qid=1111672560/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-4809885-6787305) , slaughter of natives, etc. Re: “Genesis: Translation and Commentary” being beautiful, I don’t see myself reading it, except at the library, and a quick search reveals it is not available there. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/72 "2005-03-24T13:49:22Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Re: “Genesis: Translation and Commentary” being beautiful, I don’t see myself reading it, except at the library, and a quick search reveals it is not available there. Well, I reckon you get out of something what you’re willing to put into it. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/73 "2005-03-24T14:07:13Z")
Not really, what with three years of my life studying for my bar mitzvah, realizing what an absurd book it is, and all the time after that spent being bored to death every time I am asked to attend holiday services at my parent’s shul. The time I was willing to put into it did not get me _anything_! Yes, I know what you mean, but some “poetic” english book is not going to convince me of the “beauty” of a book I have wasted so much time over the original text of. Once you have reread and reread so much, there is no rereading of it that puts it in a good light. Oh, and [this link](http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/039331670X/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-4809885-6787305#reader-link) allows me to read the first few pages of the book your recommend. I am unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/74 "2005-03-24T17:00:10Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Not really, what with three years of my life studying for my bar mitzvah, realizing what an absurd book it is, and all the time after that spent being bored to death every time I am asked to attend holiday services at my parent’s shul. I can understand that. I had much the same reaction to what I was forced to read for church. Absurd and boring. All I can say is, that changed when I got some distance from it and started diving into it on my own, in the same way I’d dive into any book of mythology, poetry, and tradition. Granted, much of what was of vital interest to the ancient redactors is dull as dirt. But it turned out that a lot of it began speaking to me in ways I did not expect. To paraphrase Twain, I was surprised how much the old guys had learned. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/75 "2005-03-24T17:49:50Z")
Well, you go your way, and I’ll go my way. I also reread the torah, this time in english, ignoring all the commentary and apogetics, and then read the christian bible, and well, I am sure what people know what my reaction has been. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/76 "2005-03-24T21:46:33Z")
> [@Large Marge](#): > > I think it’s more complex than that. Do you really see it as that simple or are you being flip because you’re feeling a bit on the defensive? > > I have to say I’m kinda disappointed, because the OP was “ask the athiest,” but I’ve received only very short and sometimes curt answers. This is a topic in which I’m very interested. > > Religion, faith, athiesm are very complex issues. Do you disagree? Um, yeah I guess so. I suppose I don’t really know much about religion or faith so I could quite easily be wrong about that, but there really is no complexity to my athiesm. There is no evidence for god. It makes sense to me that there is no god. ---
**Author:** ![Othersider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/77 "2005-03-24T22:37:22Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > Um, yeah I guess so. I suppose I don’t really know much about religion or faith so I could quite easily be wrong about that, but there really is no complexity to my athiesm. There is no evidence for god. It makes sense to me that there is no god. I may be only nine years older than you are, and perhaps none the wiser, but it seems to me that it’s a lot more complex than that, as **Large Marge** suggested. Then again, I’m of the opinion that there is both evidence suggesting God exists, and that He doesn’t. It’s up to us to evaluate the evidence and decide for ourselves if we think God’s there or not, or if we just can’t decide either way. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/78 "2005-03-25T01:27:42Z")
Well, the last comment sounds like a perfect way to plug a thread called: [Is there “Evidence” of God?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=304423) You may (or may not) enjoy reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/79 "2005-03-25T14:26:53Z")
Have you ever noticed that the light in Fort Wayne is perpetually gray, even on sunny days? Have you ever noticed that the light in the Lafayette area is harsh? Have you ever noticed that Perry County smells funny? ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/80 "2005-03-25T22:19:17Z")
**Scott\_plaid** , thank you, I haven’t quite finished it yet, but so far I enjoy it. > [@Sattua](#): > > Have you ever noticed that the light in Fort Wayne is perpetually gray, even on sunny days? Have you ever noticed that the light in the Lafayette area is harsh? Have you ever noticed that Perry County smells funny? I’ve never been to those places frequently enough to notice. My brother tells me it is bright in Lafayette. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436.md?page=5)