# Ask the atheist, 15 year old, male Hoosier. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 20, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436 "2005-03-20T16:52:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Othersider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/121 "2005-03-31T10:54:14Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > Yes, but my point was also just a joke. 😉 Did you get that, too? If not, I’m gonna feel really old! > > There are some songs I thought were eternal. I love Dylan as much as the next man. I didn’t put my finger on it immediately though, for which I am disappointed in myself. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Othersider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cab0a1/32.png) [@Othersider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othersider)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/122 "2005-03-31T10:55:23Z")
> [@Othersider](#): > > I love Dylan as much as the next man. I didn’t put my finger on it immediately though, for which I am disappointed in myself. ☹ Especially considering I _just quoted_ the same song, just a few lines before it, a few posts back in this thread. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/123 "2005-03-31T17:46:10Z")
> [@Strinka](#): > > OK, I got _The Demon-Haunted World_. It’s in my hand right now. I’m going to put it down now, because it’s hard to type like this. > > Ahh…much better. Glad to hear it! Can’t wait for your impressions. Carl Sagan starts out a bit slowly in that he’s establishing where he is in his thinking and love of science. If you’ll stick with him I think it’s something you’ll be gald you made part of your synoptic view. Please let me know how it’s going once in awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/124 "2005-04-05T14:34:48Z")
**Strinka** - If you are still subscribed to this thread, I was wondering how you are coming with the Carl Sagan book? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/125 "2005-04-05T14:46:02Z")
You know, now that I think of it, what texts have you read on atheism, Strinka? I could recommend a few available on line, but I don’t want to recommend ones you’ve read before. ---
**Author:** ![Fringe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Fringe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fringe)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/126 "2005-04-05T18:26:16Z")
You should recommend some to me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/127 "2005-04-05T18:56:25Z")
I’m on chapter 13, page 239. I didn’t respond before, because I wasn’t done with it. I don’t think I’ve ever read any books that were specifically about atheism, although I have read books in which it is a theme. _The Salmon of Doubt_ by Douglas Adams, _The Blind Watchmaker_ by Richard Dawkins(which is about evolution, but it does punch holes in theistic arguments against it) Several of Robert Sawyer’s novels have some element of atheism/theism in them. To name a few: _Calculating God_, _Hominids_, _Humans_, and _Hybrids_ (a trilogy). That’s all I can think of at the moment. I’ll tell you any more I think of. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/128 "2005-04-05T18:57:42Z")
And _Godless_ by Pete Hauteman. I really didn’t like that book though. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/129 "2005-04-05T19:02:28Z")
> [@Fringe](#): > > You should recommend some to me 🙂 Hmmmm…ok. For starters, **The Happy Heretic** , [Judith Hayes](http://www.thehappyheretic.com/default.htm) has some great books out, available on her website, or [in print.](http://www.thehappyheretic.com/hhb.htm) . I was in Philidelphia a few years ago and bought one from a used book store run by the library there. Please note that when pointing out the evils of a religion, she can get quite graphic in describing the effect of catholic birth control rules on a friend. You can find here column in archived format on [The Pilate Project](http://www.xmission.com/~jburton/index.htm), a: > [@](#): > > enveloping, downloadable compendium of public-domain and by-permission reference materials to assist in the discussion of the Bible, Christianity and other religions, creationism and science, and to a lesser degree in all varieties of truth-seeking and intellectual stimulation. Presented from a free thought perspective. Needless to say, it also contains many other books that discuss relevant issues, such as **The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible** , an un-annotated bible, and selected works of Robert Ingersoll. Also, there is E Haldeman Julius (1889-1951) who wrote a fantastic number of books of educational material in general topics and also said: > [@E Haldeman Julius](#): > > Atheism is accurately defined as the denial of the assumptions of theism. The theist affirms that there is a God running the universe; he declares that the idea of such a God is necessary to an understanding of life; he offers various arguments or, as he rather presumptuously calls them, evidences for his God Idea. > > What is the position, logically, of the atheist? He will not say in a mild, uncertain fashion that he doesn’t know whether the idea is true or that it is an open question. He has studied carefully the case for and against theism. He finds that case utterly insupportable, lacking any real or positive evidence, defended by arguments which are easily discovered to be casuistic and fallacious, and linking itself with other supplementary ideas which are incredible. I could link to them, but I think you should buy them [here.](https://lightning.he.net/~atheists/catalogue/shop/cat002.php) Also, baltimorean Robert Green Ingersoll can be found all over the internaet and in public libraries. [Here](http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml) they are, but first, please read[this.](http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/forward.html) I site I found it on has a huge amount of text, but beware, it is quite easy to look for good, personal accounts and instead find dry, philosophical comparisons. I may list some recomended text from it later. The home page is [here](http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml) while recommended parts are [here,](http://www.secweb.org/agora.asp) [here,](http://www.secweb.org/kiosk.asp) and [here.](http://www.infidels.org/library/index.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/130 "2005-04-05T20:03:47Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m not sure I agree with that. I think there are many atheists whose rigorous intellectual examination of the issue consisted of: > > 1. I don’t see any god anywhere. > 2. My dog died. How can there be a god? > 3. The whole thing sounds dumb. Not to be a dick about it, but that seems to me orders of magnitude more sophisticated than “Mom said so.” Indeed, I don’t know of anyone who has ever come up with an effective counterargument, despite centuries of them trying. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/131 "2005-04-05T20:08:39Z")
Sorry, specifically a counterargument to #2. –Cliffy, again ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/132 "2005-04-06T01:56:18Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Hmmmm…ok. For starters, **The Happy Heretic** , [Judith Hayes](http://www.thehappyheretic.com/default.htm) has some great books out, available on her website, or [in print.](http://www.thehappyheretic.com/hhb.htm) . I was in Philidelphia a few years ago and bought one from a used book store run by the library there. Please note that when pointing out the evils of a religion, she can get quite graphic in describing the effect of catholic birth control rules on a friend. > > You can find here column in archived format on [The Pilate Project](http://www.xmission.com/~jburton/index.htm), a:Needless to say, it also contains many other books that discuss relevant issues, such as **The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible** , an un-annotated bible, and selected works of Robert Ingersoll. > > Also, there is E Haldeman Julius (1889-1951) who wrote a fantastic number of books of educational material in general topics and also said: > I could link to them, but I think you should buy them [here.](https://lightning.he.net/~atheists/catalogue/shop/cat002.php) > Also, baltimorean Robert Green Ingersoll can be found all over the internaet and in public libraries. [Here](http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml) they are, but first, please read[this.](http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/forward.html) > > I site I found it on has a huge amount of text, but beware, it is quite easy to look for good, personal accounts and instead find dry, philosophical comparisons. I may list some recomended text from it later. The home page is [here](http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml) while recommended parts are [here,](http://www.secweb.org/agora.asp) [here,](http://www.secweb.org/kiosk.asp) and [here.](http://www.infidels.org/library/index.shtml) Wow. What a truely GREAT post. Well thought out and wonderfully supported at no-small-amount of work involved. Nicely done **Scott\_plaid** ---
**Author:** ![Fringe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Fringe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fringe)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/133 "2005-04-06T14:32:57Z")
Thank you very much, Scott\_plaid. I appreciate the links and information. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/134 "2005-04-06T16:25:18Z")
::Blushes:: Well, I hate to interrupt the Scott Plaid love-in (a term I recall being used by my father’s friends for self-congratory gatherings of hippies, used jokingly on themselves, since they were hippies), but I thought people would like to see how like minded individuals feel about current events, so I figured I would link to a few good blogs (biographical logs) belonging to atheists. Internet talk show host, The Infidel Guy, not really a blog: > **[The Infidel Guy Show](https://www.infidelguy.com)** > > "To be truly open-minded is to first accept the possibility that you could be wrong, and to then be honest enough to change your position once sufficient evidence has been presented." - Reginald Finley, Sr a journey from evangelical christianity to atheism: [faith dissolved](http://www.students.yorku.ca/~kaldeway/faith/index.shtml) Random thoughts of an angry progressive atheist author: [writer@large](http://www.hudsonweb.net/writer) a film maker: > **[WebMD - Better information. Better health.](https://www.webmd.com/)** > > The leading source for trustworthy and timely health and medical news and information. Providing credible health information, supportive community, and educational services by blending award-winning expertise in content, community services, expert... doesn’t always focus on major news events, but on important news: [Trip Reports from Imaginary Places](http://home.earthlink.net/~colbh/weblog/blogger.html) > [@"The Reverend" Brendan Powell Smith.](#): > > Come and watch as God once again sends his chosen people into twenty years of cruel oppression only to rescue them by massacring the people he had oppress them for twenty years: [http://www.thereverend.com/](http://www.thereverend.com/) Oh, and since the last few posters had such nice words to say, I thought they might want to know who they are talking to: [三分PK拾-主页](http://teemingmillions.com/gallery/People/Picture004) It’s no glamour shot, but it does the job. ---
**Author:** ![Fringe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Fringe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fringe)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/135 "2005-04-06T17:40:23Z")
Infidel Guy has been one of my favorites for some time, though I usually forget to ever check in and listen. I can especially appreciate the faith dissolved link, as I am a former fundamentalist christian. All these links give me something productive to do at “work”. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/136 "2005-04-11T01:52:41Z")
I finished _The Demon-Haunted World_. I thought it was excellent. Most of his baloney detection kit I actually learned here. The whole book is too long and extensive to say everything I thought about it, but if you ask me about a specific chapter I would be happy to tell you my opinion on that. And, of course, if there are any new, unrelated questions anyone feels like asking me, I’ll answer those too. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/137 "2005-04-11T13:07:05Z")
**Strinka** - Glad to hear you enjoyed the book. The insights and clear thought were refreshing to me. I have undertaken to re-read it lately but have had little time to dedicate to it. I hope you will pass on the recommendation to someone you encounter that you think may benefit from it. Hope to hear more from you in the near future. **Nicodemus2004** P.S. Lately I heard someone refer to themselves as a “Saganologist”. I kinda like that. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/138 "2005-04-12T18:13:10Z")
> [@iwakura43](#): > > Are you itching to get out of Indiana? > > I would be Yeah, because I’ve heard that Joisey is paradise on earth. :rolleyes: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436/139 "2005-04-12T19:44:27Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Yeah, because I’ve heard that Joisey is paradise on earth. :rolleyes: > 😃 Hey, Princteon is. And a person whose dog up and dies doesn’t become an atheist. He becomes a blues singer. Or Mr. Bojangles. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-15-year-old-male-hoosier/295436.md?page=6)