# Ask the (atheist) Hindu **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071 "2005-06-13T13:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/1 "2005-06-13T13:00:24Z")
From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=320863) thread. Bosda gave me the excellent idea of starting this thread. Now, I don’t know if this thread will fly or not, but I thought I’d give it a shot. There are tons of debates & discussions regarding the Big Three: Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, but very little regarding Hinduism. And it is true that a lot of young Hindus know little to nothing about their religion. I say, bollocks to that! I’m atheist and yet still follow my religion. Hinduism is one of the religions that can be followed in this way. So ask me some questions and I’ll answer them as best as I can. Let’s break down some of the ignorance regarding Hinduism. Please note, right off the bat, that Hinduism is not a polytheistic religion. From [religioustolerance.org](http://religioustolerance.org): > [@](#): > > The many forms of Hinduism are henotheistic religions. They recognize a single deity, and view other Gods and Goddesses as manifestations or aspects of that supreme God. Also note that while I don’t believe in the more mythical aspects of this religion, what I do believe in is: _ **Dharm** _: It’s been defined in many ways but personally I define it as one’s duty. One’s duty to oneself, the people around you, the world at large, and to one’s inner self. Note I don’t say soul. _ **Karm** _: I do not believe in reincarnation, but this in my heart generally translates to “You reap what you sow” - in this life. There is no god that judges karma, it’s just sort of an account that builds up on you. If you do cruel, malicious things, they will come back to you. A bit naive, perhaps, but it works for me. I also welcome other Hindus to state their views and raise questions. Hinduism is as varied as the days, and everyone worships differently. Thanks, I’ll be here all week. ---
**Author:** ![citybadger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@citybadger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citybadger)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/2 "2005-06-13T13:12:01Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > _ **Karm** _: I do not believe in reincarnation, but this in my heart generally translates to “You reap what you sow” - in this life. > > There is no god that judges karma, it’s just sort of an account that builds up on you. If you do cruel, malicious things, they will come back to you. A bit naive, perhaps, but it works for me. Does it follow from this that the poor, the diseased, and the the unlucky are that way because of past bad actions? Or alternatively, they are involunarily building up a credit they will drawn on later? ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/3 "2005-06-13T13:12:47Z")
Is Atman Brahman? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/4 "2005-06-13T13:19:12Z")
> [@citybadger](#): > > Does it follow from this that the poor, the diseased, and the the unlucky are that way because of past bad actions? Or alternatively, they are involunarily building up a credit they will drawn on later? _According to a strict intrepretation of Hinduism_, Yes. They are this way because of actions in a past life. I find reincarnation to be inherently silly. It’s hard to explain, so let’s break it down piece by piece. Poor: I don’t inherently find poverty to be a curse. Bear with me! Extreme poverty, yes, of course. But just being poor itself doesn’t preclude happiness. It’s what you do with it that makes a difference. Many many actions contributed to someone being poor at one time or another…your parents’ actions, their parents’ actions, outsiders’ actions, etc. Another tenet is that everything is linked in one way or another. This is someone speaking who could be considered lower-middle class, so it’s not as though I’m rich & lecturing. Diseased: Disease exists, and afflicts people. There’s no rhyme or reason, so I guess unlucky is the best description. The only thing we can do is try and research into new cures and vaccines. Luck: While I mostly believe that one makes their own luck, sometimes you can’t deny that bad luck just happens. Again, it’s just a part of this world. > [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Is Atman Brahman? I’m not sure if you’re asking me if he is or if I believe in it…I don’t believe in a Supreme Being, so I can’t really answer this fully. According to Hinduism, Brahman is the Ultimate Supreme Being from which all others stem. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/5 "2005-06-13T13:49:16Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I say, bollocks to that! I’m atheist and yet still follow my religion. Hinduism is one of the religions that can be followed in this way. Could you explain this please? Is it anything like being culturally Catholic? If there is no god figure (inactive or active) balancing the karmic scales, how does that work? Is there a natural balance? How do you account for people with way more than their share of ‘bad luck’? It seems as though this philosphy rationalizes any outcome. I know that Gandhi made huge strides to remove the caste system from Ind-a however, do you still find that sort of classist thinking in religious matters? Please don’t think I’m trying to be snarky. I am really curious, especially since half of my family is practicing Hindu. But I also don’t want to give you a pass simply because you’re not speaking on Christian thought. too many people get caught up in the ‘cool factor’ of Eastern religions and overlook real world faults. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/6 "2005-06-13T14:09:02Z")
I don’t think you’re being snarky at all, **Stonebow**. Let me point out I am not the best debater and perhaps my words don’t come out clearly, so please ask me to explain everything that’s not clear. And forgive me if I’m still not very good at it. It is similar to being culturally Jewish, I think. Hinduism has precepts that can be followed without a god. \*Dharma \* is my duty. This means, for example, I must endeavor to be a good citizen to the country I live in, without forgetting the country I was born in. I shouldn’t forget my culture & traditions and yet, adopt the new country’s as well. I must be respectful to my elders, treat those of my age as friends, and be affectionate and a mentor to the youngers. I must stop injustice where I see it and where I’m able to, and must be just and fair, and non-judgemental. I practice _ahimsa_, or non-violence. I work towards _shanti_, or peace, both in my life and around me. All of this can be attained & worked for without a god. I do it becaue it makes me feel good, and because I feel it’s the right thing to do. I would do it anyway, but Hinduism gives me a guide to go by. As for people with way more than their share of bad luck, I don’t attempt to rationalize it. Really, what would be the purpose? If there is no god, then there are flaws in everything, even in my cosmic scale of karma. As I said earlier, I’ve had my share of bad luck, more than some and less than others. When I think karma, I only think of actions…in my current condition, do I do things to hurt other people in order to gain more for myself? Or do I try to be peaceful and happy in what I have? The caste system is unfortunately very prevalent. Someone who has resided in India as an adult can probably tell you more of the details, but it seems to me it is still painfully obvious. Huge strides have been made, but there is still far left to go. It seems to me India is one of the Third World countries who has the best chance to step into the First World. Unfortunately they must leave behind blind obedience to religion…Hinduism is traditionally one of the more “open” and lenient religions in the world but it’s been twisted to be much more strict than it is. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/7 "2005-06-13T14:29:31Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Is Atman Brahman? No. From [The Principal Upanisads](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573925489): > [@](#): > > Atman is what remains when everything that is not the self is eliminated. > … > Brahman becomes the primal principle and guiding spirit of the universe. > … > In later thought, brahman meant wisdom or Veda. Atman is essence of individual. Brahman is essence of the Total. Actually, these are gnostically-derived concepts, so defining them rigorously, is unwise. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/8 "2005-06-13T15:05:06Z")
Something I’ve never fully understood about Eastern “Religions” (and I’ve heard this claimed about many of them) – how can one be an Atheist yet consider oneself as part of a **religion** as well? Or, conversely, In what way is, eg. in your case, Hinduism a “religion” rather than a philosophy? I just fail to see how it is possible to disbelieve in a supreme deity while believing in a religion in the Abrahamic sense; so I guess the question really is: How does a Hindu define “religion”, if not as “a system of behavior stemming from the belief in a Supreme Being that has mandated this behavior”? Also, as a Culturally Jewish Atheist, I’m not certain I understand your analogy here > [@Anaamika](#): > > It is similar to being culturally Jewish, I think. Hinduism has precepts that can be followed without a god. Again, I just don’t see it – I separate Cultural Judaism from Religious Judaism completely. I am one but emphatically not the other. And I disagree that Judaism as a religion canbe followed without a belief in God. Maybe, like I’ve already suggested, I just don’t (and maybe can’t) understand what it means to “belong” to Hinduism as a “religion”. Dani ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/9 "2005-06-13T15:07:00Z")
Sorry to harp on this, **Anaamika** , but I’m still lost. I understand that Hinduism has some precepts that can more or less be followed by non-theists. But my understanding has always been that _dharma_ is a projection of Brahman, and as such (in mainstream Hinduism at any rate) cannot be divorced from belief in the Divine. I mean, it seems to me it’s the same as saying I’m an atheist Christian because I believe in the Golden Rule, or an atheist Wiccan because I agree with the Rede . . . so what am I missing. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/10 "2005-06-13T15:12:45Z")
(sorry for the simulpost. not trying to jump your shit, really.) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/11 "2005-06-13T15:17:39Z")
Who says you can’t follow the precepts of cultural Hinduism without believing there is a God or a soul? And I also didn’t claim to be a mainstream Hindu. What I am basically saying is I am atheist, but I find it easier to follow a set of rules than making up my own. The rules of Hinduism are easiest for me to follow because I’ve been raised in them. As for cultural Judaism vs. cultural Hinduism, I apologize for the comparison and didn’t mean to imply that cultural Judaism is the same…just similar. I’ve heard many people claim they are culturally It seems they’re not so similar. Hinduism would not be defined as such: a system of behavior stemming from the belief in a Supreme Being that has mandated this behavior But as such: a system of behavior that stems from the belief that one has a duty in this world to complete, and that what you do comes back to you in some form or another. Again, I apologize for not being clear. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/12 "2005-06-13T15:24:20Z")
**Noone Special & andros** , The definition of Brahman that I quoted should answer your concerns. Think of the Brahman as the essence on which all existence is predicated. The Supreme Being does not have to be a personal, corporeal spirit. Instead of religion as “a system of behavior stemming from the belief in a Supreme Being that has mandated this behavior”, think of it as “a system of behavior stemming from the discovery of a cosmic order”, which leaves the questions of “_why this cosmic order?_” and “_from where?_” open. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/13 "2005-06-13T17:13:56Z")
I can’t see any problem with an Atheist following the 10 commandments and keeping perfectly Kosher in what he/she eats, wears, and does all as a cultural but not spiritual activity. So why not an Atheist follow the cultural rules of Hinduism without considering them spiritually linked to the existance of a God or Gods. To the OP, do you avoid eating beef? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/14 "2005-06-13T17:53:41Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > I can’t see any problem with an Atheist following the 10 commandments and keeping perfectly Kosher in what he/she eats, wears, and does all as a cultural but not spiritual activity. So why not an Atheist follow the cultural rules of Hinduism without considering them spiritually linked to the existance of a God or Gods. This is what I was trying to say, thank you. > [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > To the OP, do you avoid eating beef? Why or why not? No, I do not avoid eating beef. As a matter of fact, I eat any and all meats…tripe excepted. When I was 17 or so, I did take Brahmin vows of vegetarianism. This lasted about three years, or until I finally went away to college at age 20. (I commuted for two years). In college I found it simply wasn’t practical to be a vegetarian and survive. The reasoning behind no beef, is Indians worship the cow. The reasoning behind that is, when Lord Krishna resided on this Earth he was a cowherd. When the village said they were going to pray to Lord Indra (god of the heavens) Krishna said “Why would you pray to him, who does nothing for you? Worship the sun who gives you energy, the fields for the food, Govindh Mountain for sheltering you, and the cow for giving you milk.” I am perfectly happy eating beef and it doesn’t contradict with any of my beliefs, neither do I believe Krishna really was a God , so I consider this to be not necesary to be fulfilled. BTW, Hindus are supposed to be complete vegetarians. (Not vegans). Lots of people eat chicken, and fish is HUGE in the port cities, but they get very upset if you eat beef. My cousins were horrified. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/15 "2005-06-13T17:54:10Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > No. . . defining them rigorously, is unwise. Then why so dogmatic, **Gyan**? **Aanamika** , I, too, am an atheist, but find much metaphoric meaning in Hinduism. Neuroscientist V. S. Ramachandran states better than I can what I was getting at with my question: > [@](#): > > The notion of a private self that inhabits your brain and is aloof from the rest of the world, that engages in a lofty inspection of events, as at the cinema — saying, Here’s me, I’m important, I’m watching the world — Hinduism has always maintained that this is an illusion. It’s called Maya. In fact, you are part of the universe, part of the ebb and flow of events, and once you give up the illusion of a separate soul residing in you and realize you are really one with the cosmos, that you are part of God, part of the rest of nature — that’s like a religious experience. You ‘lift the veil of Maya.’ So, to that extent, our findings are consistent with religious belief, in that we are saying there is no real so-called self, it’s really a construct — an illusion if you like. And when that happens — the lifting of the veil — you lose the fear of personal death," he says. “Because it’s saying there is no ‘person’ to start with. How can you fear personal death if you are really part of God?” Make any sense to you? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/16 "2005-06-13T17:58:47Z")
It does make sense, and you can even follow this if you don’t believe in a God. The Universe may seem to be chaotic and disordered, and it IS, but you’re still a part of it. Death isn’t to be feared…you’re only one person and even if the human race dies out the Universe will go on. On the contrary, I think believing in it without a God is easier, because gods have always seemed to me to be capricious and whimsical. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/17 "2005-06-13T18:17:38Z")
Was it difficult for you to eat beef the first time you did it? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/18 "2005-06-13T18:25:05Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > Was it difficult for you to eat beef the first time you did it? No, because the first time I ate it was at McDonald’s and I was very young. I didn’t really think about it. I barely remember it. If you mean when I went back at 20, no, it wasn’t a big deal. It was more of a relief, actually, that I didn’t need to be so careful anymore. My aunt has lived in this country for 12 years and still doesn’t eat beef, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/19 "2005-06-13T18:28:04Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > BTW, Hindus are supposed to be complete vegetarians. (Not vegans). Lots of people eat chicken, and fish is HUGE in the port cities, but they get very upset if you eat beef. My cousins were horrified. Depends where you are and who you are, to my understanding. In some areas like Kerala, Karantaka and Gujarat, Hindus, mostly but not exclusively Dalits ( but almost never high-caste Brahmins ), do more or less commonly eat beef. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071/20 "2005-06-13T18:40:04Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Is Atman Brahman? It depends on which school of thought you follow. Non-dualism preaches that Atman and Brahman are one and the same and it is this realization that leads to salvation. [http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/ad\_faq.html](http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/ad_faq.html) **Anaamika** : interestingly enough, the words Dharma and Karma have multiple meanings. While you are right in talking of Karma as a “reap what you sow” concept, it’s also talked about as one path to salvation. Karma, in that context, refers to selfless work not focused on results. As for Dharma, while “duty” is one interpretation, I have actually seen it used more often in the context of righteousness. Dharm vs. Adharm - battle of right vs. wrong, morality vs. immorality etc. Right at the beginning of the Bhagavad-Gita, Arjuna is confused about the Dharma of fighting his own brothers. Not trying to confuse the issue 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ask-the-atheist-hindu/308071.md?page=2)